Can anyone diagnose this overheating problem

[rtstrack]

Can anyone help me or atleast tell me where I should start in diagnosing my problem? My 428's water temp was always running 220-225 and I thought it was too high, so I wanted to start with changing out the thermostat (had no clue what was in there). It turned out being a 160 (there was a 160 stamped on the center) and I swapped it for a 195 (only thing in stock at the time). Well apparently I didnt seal it well enough and it slipped out of the housing while drivng, and I watched the temp keep on going up to 230 at which point i pulled over on the highway and shut it off. The gauge kept going up to 240 and I opened the hood to see coolant squirting from around the waterpump. Towed it to the local garage and had them swap out the tstat for a restrictor plate (his idea) and put in a edelbrock high flow water pump (my idea...thinking it would reduce the normally high 220-225 down 10 or 15 degrees).Took the car out on the open road doing 55ish. Took about 3 minutes for the car to slowly reach 180, then remained at 180 for another 3-5minutes then the temperature semi-quickly raised up to 230 at which point I arrived home and shut her down (no boil over). I switched out the restrictor plate for the original 160 t-stat (and made sure there was a good seal) and had the the same results. I have a Griffin radiator, puller fan with shroud (I have a manual fan switch), an inlet shroud ( I didnt have this originally and probably should have started with this to reduce my high temp problem) and now the front air is completely flowing through the radiator, oil cooler (manual switch), timing is low 30's. Puller fan is going in proper direction and isn't losing power at high rpms. The water pump pulley is slightly smaller than the crank pulley, but i have no idea what size the original water pump pulley was. I have an overflow tank that is working properly, expaned coolant goes into tank when hot and sucks back into radiator when cool. Running 50/50 with water wetter. There isn't any white smoke when I start it so that rules out a major head gasket blow, but not necessarily a small one, which with my bad luck, is exactly what I have. Any thoughts?
Ryan

[double ugly]

A 160 is definately too cold. Beyond that you will have to rely on the experts here.
John

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Once your car is moving more than 10/15 mph, the fan doesn't matter anymore, so scratch that. There should be NO leaks whatsoever. I use a 190 deg thermostat with a 1/8th hole drilled in it for air bleed purposes, and my FE runs between 170 and 180 unless I'm in stop & go traffic. I also use a stock FE water pump and pully which works fine. The higher number thermostat gives the water a little more time in the radiator to cool before going back to the block.
Just get back to basics, and if you have no luck check the head gaskets. Good luck.

[mickmate]

You mention pulley size, a hipo pump and no difference from the t stat. See if the coolant is spending long enough in the rad to do its job. Simple check grab the top and bottom hoses after it's been warmed up. Top should be too hot to hold, bottom should be warm to cool enough to hold. This can also tell you if there's enough rad to get it cooled.

[392cobra]

After it's warmed up,feel with your hand across and down the front & what you can reach in the rear of the radiator for cool spots/areas.It is done with the engine running.If you don't,area/spots that would be cool will warm up,heat sink.

[Barnsnake]

I'd start by verifying the accuracy of the gauge/sender. Your description of a consistent (although high) temperature reading before the service makes me doubly suspicious of the gauge. If there are alternate locations for the sender, use the location nearest the engine side of the thermostat.
You seem to be aware of air pocket issues which may arise after any cooling system service.
If the expansion recovery tank's hot and cold levels are consistent, it should rule out a head gasket leak.
If you are using old rubber radiator hoses a "flap" from a failure of the inner lining could be restricting flow.

Keep us posted on your findings.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Barnsnake

If you are using old rubber radiator hoses a "flap" from a failure of the inner lining could be restricting flow.

Keep us posted on your findings.

A rubber hose on the suction side can also collaspe,cutting water flow.It needs to have a wire coil in it.

[undy]

On a different tangent..

I don't know about your 428's rebuild history.. but assuming it's a fresh rebuild it's possible to put a head gasket in backwards (180 deg out) and block the coolant flow path that brings the coolant from the block across the head, pulling the heat forward from the block and head towards the manifold outlet. This will leave you with a pretty much constant overheating problem, eventually frying that side of the motor. It's really easy to do. Ask me how I know.

...just a thought.

Dave

[427 S/O]

Ryan, installing the thermostat can be a little aggravating. NAPA has the sticky gaskets with the peel off paper, keeps it from sliding out of place. I plugged the bypass's and drilled a couple of 1/8 holes in the top of the thermostat. Shrouded cooling fan(s) also help. If it keeps heating after these steps, you have a another problem?.

[Bill Bess]

Ryan,
All of the above mentioned ideas are correct. Start with basics, verify that your temp. gauge is working properly with another gauge or an infered gun. 190 thermostat w/small hole drilled for by pass, good puller fan with fan shroud, good water pump w/ correct pully, correct rad. press. cap, no leaks or loss of water, correct balance of water & coolant and maybe some water wetter, over flow recovery container...all this stuff and it should run around 185 while cruising and 210 in traffic.

I live where its about 115 degrees evreyday in the summer, my 428 FE gets up to 210 in traffic..maybe a little more if your stuck at a number of long traffic lights. On the other hand it runs very cool in the cooler months so heating is not a problem.

I'm currently working (experimenting with a couple of boat bilge tunnel blowers) to exhaust excessive heat out of the engine compartment while stuck at traffic lights.
The things take the temp. down approximately 5 degrees really quick, but not much more and then do nothing as soon as you start moving. The other problem is that these tunnel blowers are plastic and are subject to melt down if the temp. get too hot....I'm working on that problem.

Anyway, don't give up it's just the nature of the beast.
Best Regards, Bill

[PatBuckley]

I assume you are bleeding the cooling system?

[xlr8or]

what Pat said. Lift the nose of the car if necessary, bleed at the temp sensor. Does your radiator have a bleed line from the top of the rad to the expansion tank?

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

A rubber hose on the suction side can also collaspe,cutting water flow.It needs to have a wire coil in it.

Sure is tough to read your replies with that 'live' avatar.

[427 S/O]

Zoe, I found if you hold your left hand up and block, it's easier to reply, even with one hand.

[BERT]

Double check your timing too. Bert

[CowtownCobra]

I have a Lonestar and have had similar problems. I totally agree on burping the system. Get the front several feet higher than the back, as high as you can, then fill the system. Suggest the temp guage is not accurate which may be due to a bad voltage reference. If you don't have a 100 amp alternator, get one. This will keep the fan running full speed at all times. The high output coils and fans we run can easily pull down the electrical system on anything less.

Good luck.

[xlr8or]

What is the blocked bored to? The 428's are a bit thin on cylinder walls and it can cause overheating problems if they get too thin.

[rtstrack]

Game over? I was changing out the t-stat to a 180 and coolant was obviously draining from the t-stat housing. Checked out the coolant and noticed some oil in it. I guess in theory the oil could have been on the block and collected as it ran down and its no big deal...but what can I do to check its not a bigger deal?

[Barnsnake]

Look in the radiator. If there's oil in the coolant it will be floating on top if given time to come out of emulsion.

[CHANMADD]

Why not go back to putting the 190 thermostat in as you originally said you were doing.
The installation just was'nt done right so it leaked! Do it right with a hole drilled in the top of the thermostat and get yourself an automatic fan switch that switches on at about 190 as well.
The switch needs to be mounted in the bottom of ,or the cold side of the radiator, so that the fans only kick on when that cold side gets to 190.
Make sure that all the air is out of the system.