Mass Flo EFI Inc

sandpitcobra · #1 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 03:50 AM

I am looking for feedback from anyone that has installed the mass flo efi convesion kit to their Cobra. I have an 89 Mustang 5.0 HO V8 in my Cobra and I hate the look of the upper inlet manfold. I would love to make it look more conventional with this kit but it doesn't come cheap. Is it worth the money?

Rgds,

Ian

Mac VABCH · #2 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 06:37 AM

I have had one installed for 3 yrs now with a stockish engine you should be able to just bolt it on and run your computer. I would talk to Steve at Mass Flo. Is yours a speed density EFI or mass air? I its a speed density your could probably save some money by not having the air meter and using your computer...Mac

sandpitcobra · #3 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 07:48 AM

Hi Mac,

I have a Mass air flow type. I have spoken to Chris at Mass air flow who has been extremly helpful. I am just weighing up whether to go for the partial or full kit as I have to repace my computer and distributer anyway for other reasons.

Mac VABCH · #4 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 07:57 AM

Thats right its Chris not Steve. Might as weel go for the full kit then. I did the same but sourced my own fuel system as I thought his was over kill...Mac

olddog · #5 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 02:15 PM

My car had a Mass Flow on it when I bought the car. Chris has treated me well, as I have called him a few times for help.

The system is well built, however I will say the fuel injection bungs were sticking into the air flow on some cylinders and the weld on the bungs had swelled a few to be 1/3 blocked off.

My engine is stroked to 347 and the cam is 336/342 durration. I do not feel the engine makes any way near the power it should. I believe the engine is too modified to run the factory tune parameters. I plan to buy a tweecer system to tune it. Chris can custom chip it and I'm sure it would run better, but I do not agree with him that it is a plug a play system.

I have to say that other than building a throttle body that looks like a carb and figuring out how to convert a GM flow meter to work with a Ford EEC 4, a person should be able to make a symilar system.

Ronbo · #6 (**permalink**) 09-28-2008, 11:21 PM

If you look in my gallery you'll see the manifolds are now cast with the injector bosses unlike the older "modded" style.

I'm afraid I can't comment on how it runs yet, but the dyno numbers I got from Kieth showed a considerable power increase (40+Hp) over the same engine with a carb.

olddog · #7 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I'm afraid I can't comment on how it runs yet, but the dyno numbers I got from Kieth showed a considerable power increase (40+Hp) over the same engine with a carb.

Do tell the details! I'm all ears.

Type of engine?
Engine specs?
Mass Flow custom chip it based on your specs?
Was the Mass Flow and Carb a fair comparison? Both tuned propperly? Both single plane intakes?

olddog · #8 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 08:52 PM

Ronbo,

I was able to get into your gallery and see the manifold and the dyno sheets. The engine was breathing very well yet the torque was dropping off. Towards the end the A/F was going rich. I have to say I suspect that with some timing and fuel tuning I think that engine can do more. I'm not trying to 2nd guess the builder, as I wouldn't make a pimple on his..... Anyway it would be worth a question or two.

Ronbo · #9 (**permalink**) 09-29-2008, 09:36 PM

I had Kieth Craft supply the entire driveline: MassFlo, Engine, Clutch, and transmission.

My comparison was based on an idenical engine of one of the members here (590Hp) and Kieth's sheet on his web site (580Hp). The Hp / Tq plots were consistantly higher across the RPMs measured.

I honestly don't see myself pushing this engine near it's limits as I just don't have the skills to contol it (maybe one day

). My main reason for avoiding a carb is, well, they're a PIA. (especially Holleys)

As far as "tweeking" I doubt I could do better than Kieth or Chris, but I may may fool with it at some point.

olddog · #10 (**permalink**) 09-30-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I had Kieth Craft supply the entire driveline: MassFlo, Engine, Clutch, and transmission.

My comparison was based on an idenical engine of one of the members here (590Hp) and Kieth's sheet on his web site (580Hp). The Hp / Tq plots were consistantly higher across the RPMs measured.

I honestly don't see myself pushing this engine near it's limits as I just don't have the skills to contol it (maybe one day

). My main reason for avoiding a carb is, well, they're a PIA. (especially Holleys)

As far as "tweeking" I doubt I could do better than Kieth or Chris, but I may may fool with it at some point.

I have to agree that you have more than anyone actually needs on the street and most types of tracks. A conservative tune buys safety factor. I think I would leave it alone too, if it were mine.

O yea, did Chris do a custom chip or did Kieth do the tuning?

Ronbo · #11 (**permalink**) 09-30-2008, 05:56 PM

As I understand it Chris has specific maps that he burns in depending on application. Obviously depending on the engine different firing order and injector sizes as well.

Chris has been building these for some time now so I'd imagine working with builders like Keith it's about as good as it'll get.

Biggest advantage to the system is also it's biggest problem, the mass air meter is not in a good spot right on top of the throttle body. The oxygen sensors are located at the collectors in mine, again not ideal, but side pipes aren't real O2 sensor friendly (or headers for that matter).

About the only real problem I've heard of is that the system doesn't adapt itself real well to altitude changes (although it does have a barometric sensor). This may not be an issue anymore as the system has evolved over time.

olddog · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2008, 10:30 AM

Ronbo I'm no expert and just learning myself. I don't feel qualified to be telling anyone what to do, however I must pass this on to you. Everything I have read of EFI from many sources warns that locating the O2 sensor too far from the engine will cause problems. Even MassFlow tells you this in their instructions. Everyone seems to say it is better to put the O2 in a single tube than locate it too far away at the collector. I think 15" to 18" from the head is what I read the most. Mine is set up this way.

If you have not installed the headers and side pipe yet, I think it would be best to locate an O2 bung in a single tube at the recomended distance on each side. If you want to try it at the collector first, you can plug the other bungs. At least you would then have either option with the least amount of work.

I on the other hand, am thinking of adding a bung at the collector so I can put a wide band O2 in so that I can work on tuning the system. So I think the bung at the collector is a good thing to have. I just don't know that it is a good place for the O2 connected to the EEC.

Roger Cormier · #13 (**permalink**) 10-02-2008, 12:21 PM

Ian, you might want to pick up the Nov. issue of Hot Rod magazine because the cover story they have the different types, and installs of EFIs.

Ronbo · #14 (**permalink**) 10-02-2008, 03:12 PM

It's a tough call, put it at the collector so you sample all cylinders or at a single pipe higher up. The mass-flo system uses heated sensors so this helps with the distance somewhat. The sensor element also presents a greater restriction to the single pipe than the collector location.

Anyhow, input from others has stated that the system works fine in either position. Kirkham welded the bungs in the sidepipe collectors for me and Joe stated that it's the best place to put them in their experiance.

I'm getting pretty close to having the car finished now so I'll know soon...

sandpitcobra · #15 (**permalink**) 10-04-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Cormier

Ian, you might want to pick up the Nov. issue of Hot Rod magazine because the cover story they have the different types, and installs of EFIs.

Thanks Roger I'll pick one up. I am surprised at the lack of replies to this post. Do I take it from this that not many people have this bit of kit fitted?

Rgds,

Ian

Ronbo · #16 (**permalink**) 10-04-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandpitcobra

Thanks Roger I'll pick one up. I am surprised at the lack of replies to this post. Do I take it from this that not many people have this bit of kit fitted?

Rgds,

Ian

Not many, most folks opt for a carb or stack injection. Do a search for Mass-flo threads.

Velox · #17 (**permalink**) 10-04-2008, 09:04 PM

I put this system on my 545 after considering many of the EFI setups available. I had the standard big Holley previously and wanted to preserve the conventional look somewhat rather than a stack setup. I talked to Chris at Mass-Flo a number of times and finally went ahead. It was worth the money to me, I like it, and it solved all the concerns I have always had with my carb setups. I spent extra for the fuel system kit, probably if I did this again I would source my own parts especially a smaller inline fuel pump which I have since changed to. Chris shipped my system, injectors, computer and everything based on my CID, cam, compression ratio etc. It starts right up cold or hot, very smooth accel, so yes, for me it was worth it.

sandpitcobra · #18 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 01:28 AM

Velox,

Thanks for your post and picture. It looks great. I am erring towards spending the money for the look and the ease of installation as this kit is so easy to install. I am in Dubai in the middle east so on my own as far as setting things up and sourcing parts.

Ian

Larry N Johnson · #19 (**permalink**) 10-05-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandpitcobra

I am looking for feedback from anyone that has installed the mass flo efi convesion kit to their Cobra. I have an 89 Mustang 5.0 HO V8 in my Cobra and I hate the look of the upper inlet manfold. I would love to make it look more conventional with this kit but it doesn't come cheap. Is it worth the money?

Rgds,

Ian

Have you called and asked the price?

You only need the manifold, air mass flow sensor, air cleaner, and fuel rails. The rest you already have: injectors, EEC, wiring, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and distributor.

They work great, BTW.