Got on it & BOOM

[StreetSnake]

Last night, I was out driving my baby and decided to have a little fun and run her a little. I trounced on it around 15mph and boom. She died and I could get her to fire up. All i got was a backfire from sidepipes.

I've done some searches on this forum and it sounds like it might jumped time. What are the first things I need to look for, easiest to hardest. Unfortunatley I will have to pull my TWM stacks off to get to the distributer but what else should I be looking for. I only have a little over 1200 miles on the motor, I'm praying this isn't anything catastrophic. Also if it is jumped time is there anything to upgrade so this won't happen again? Thanks in advance for your advice and help.

[MrMagoo]

I am going to agree that your timing got messed up. Check the dist gears. Bet you lost a tooth. In any event I agree, it sounds like a timing problem.

Good Luck, hope you get back on the road soon.

[patrickt]

First see if the rotor moves at all. Pull the distributor cap, crank the engine and tell us if the rotor spins.

[wtm442]

See if the distributor hold down bolt is loose. If it is, re-time the engine.
If not, see previous answers.

[bobcowan]

My money is on a sheared roll pin in the distributer shaft. Like Patrickt said, see if the rotor turns with the engine. What distributer did you use in the 427W? If it's a Mallory or MSD, look at the bottom of the gear and see if it's shiny. If so, that's what caused the sheared pin.

[csx4910]

That is exactly what happened to my car a month ago. Pin sheared off.

[Jamo]

If the pin did shear, drill out the shaft and your new gear to accept a Chevy pin.

[RICK LAKE]

StreetSnake Pull the cap and rotor and start here. If it's an MSD setup, they are having problems with materials. The carbon post breaks off in the cap. Check for a burnt hole on the rotor. This is the easiest to do FIRST. Next make sure the distributor is tight and has not moved. Make sure that the rotor lines up with #1 terminal on the rotor and the motor is at #1 compression stroke in the motor. If this is OK, unhook the COIL wire while doing this. Just crank the motor, add no fuel, if you get oil pressure after 5-10 seconds the pin is OK on the distributor, if not start here with a possible broken pin. Before doing any tear down of the motor, Make sure you have spark to the spark plugs. Easy way is to pull the coil wire and check for spark, at the cap, then check at the plugs. If you have none go to the distributor. I am in the understanding that you have checked the fuses first and they all passed. Also hurt around and check al the grounds for being tight. Vibrations of a motor can loosen these bolts real easy. Star washers help with the grounds. I don't know what ECU you are running but listen and see if you get the injectors pulsing when cranking. A spark tester and OHM meter are good basic tools to help with this problem. We have had guys at R&G break pins in the distributors with MSDs. Prolem is finding the pin. Make sure if the pin is broken you try and find the other parts. This maybe an oil pan pulling party. The pin for the distributor in a spring roll pin, not just a straight pin or the ones that look like a "C". "C" will not last long, the metal is not tool steel and will shear. The broken piece can end up in the oil pump and shear off a new pin. Have seen this happen to a guy than know the pin parts would stay in the bottom of the pan or attach to the magnetic drain plug. Bottom line, PULL THE PAN. and find the parts. There should be 3-4 pieces to make up the old pin. One peice wil stay in the shaft of the distributor. Good luck, Heading to R&G. Rick L.

[MrMagoo]

As I have posted elsewhere, EVERY TIME I have had an ignition failure it has been the distributor. I have had the following:

sheared pins
broken gears
fouled contacts in cap
stuck mechanical advance

I now carry a complete extra distributor (including rotor and cap) with me. My last problem was with a poly carbon gear that lost a couple of teeth when I stepped on it. Switched back to bronze.

[vettestr]

All good items to check below. Just a thought since you do not know what or how bad, I would START with the following. Turn engine by hand and check for spark.

1. Use a breaker bar to turn the engine over. If a sheared pin or no oil drive etc... do not crank it over with starter yet.

2. Bar the engine in proper rotation till timing mark gets within about 40 50 degrees before TDC. stop turning engine over here until....

3. Remove spark plug wires at the plugs, bring wire #1 and #6 up to a place were you can see both ends at the same time. Place 1 & 6 wire ends on metal so they will throw a visible spark as you rotate engine past timing mark.

4. With the KEY in the ON position and all other wires removed (so it can't try to fire) rotate engine with breaker bar while watching for a spark out of either wire. Rotate engine as much as 30 degrees past TDC if spark is not seen earlier.

5. Stop rotating engine as soon as spark is seen or until about 30 degrees past timing mark of TDC Turn key to off position

Timing mark on damper can be showing #1 cyl. or be 180 degrees out that is why I had 1 and 6 plug wires at same place looking for spark. If a broken drive pin you will not get a spark. If ignition failed no spark. If timing chain jumped a tooth you probably can not turn engine with a breaker bar as valves will contact piston. By baring the engine and not cranking with starter you will not hurt anything and not spinning crank with no oil being supplied. If no spark you have a direction to look and can remove Stack to get to the distrib to look farther. Good luck

[StreetSnake]

Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm hoping to get the time at the shop tomorrow to get to the bottom of this. This forum is great.

[Hal Copple]

I had a broken distributor gear pin on the race track, a part of the pin locked up the oul pump, got thru the screen, ended up having to have the motor rebuilt.

[vettestr]

Originally Posted by Hal Copple

I had a broken distributor gear pin on the race track, a part of the pin locked up the oul pump, got Thur the screen, ended up having to have the motor rebuilt.

Hal,
I too learned that hard lesson and now wrap the pick up with a metal screen, I pull the ends toward the tube and wrap/twist stainless wire to secure in place. Been doing this for years with great luck stopping all kinds of little pieces of crap over the years.

[StreetSnake]

OK, I pulled the distributer today and found the pin intact however 3/4 of the teeth on the distributor gear are gone. If I decide to work on this myself what would you guys suggest? Also, would this mechanical failure fall under the engine's warrenty or is it just for the internals. I was hoping for just a pin replacement, ain't this my luck.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

If I decide to work on this myself what would you guys suggest?

Being mindful that 3/4's of those gears are now mixed in with your oil and just waiting to make friends with your bearings and cylinder walls.

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

Also, would this mechanical failure fall under the engine's warrenty or is it just for the internals.

You only got 1200 miles before suffering from a reasonably serious failure. I think the engine builder should step up to the plate regardless of what your paperwork may or may not say. Give them the opportunity to take the high road and let us know if they choose to take it.

[MrMagoo]

Very curious to know the composition of the gear. Keith Craft backed off from shipping motors with the poly-carbon type gears because they are prone to this sort of damage, and reverted to bronze. The poly carbon ones were supposed to be easy on the cam like bronze, but not wear as rapidly; however out in the real world they are shearing teeth. I mailed him my distributor, as well as an old MSD unit from my prior motor, and he put bronze gears on them. Thousands of miles later I'm still good, and I haven't had to break out the spare yet.* Note that the "stock" gear on an MSD unit is hardened iron. Although it's supposed to be softer than steel, manufacturers of billet steel cams say they damage the gears on the cam and recommend that you replace them.

I agree that it's oil pan pulling time.

[Rick Parker]

The composite gears were originally developed for use in Winston Cup Engines that use dry sump oiling thus no torque being constantly applied to the gear, it just drives the distributor in that application.
I mentioned this quite a while ago in another thread, I had the opportunity to talk with one of the engineers that was attempting to bring the gears to market (3 years ago or so) he ackowleged at the time they had failures with wet sump applications and at the time they were only approved for use in Dry Sump applications, but they were "Working on it". At the time they were working with Comp Cams to be the Vendor. It remains to be seen if the strength issues are resolved (?). The lack of ZDDP in various oils has something to do with these failures too.

[StreetSnake]

The distributor is a msd billet. The gear is not bronze, so i imagine it is the "stock" iron gear. So are you guys saying that i should replace this with a bronze one. We've been in contact with the builder, a very reputable one on this website, so hopefully we'll get something worked out.

[Ronbo]

Just curious if anyone thinks these gear failures may also be zinc level (or lack there of) related?

Past experiances with bronze gears makes me leery of ever using one again.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Just curious if anyone thinks these gear failures may also be zinc level (or lack there of) related?

I do. Here's another example: http://www.170220.com/TechArticles/i...pic=353.msg710