427 Cobra Engine 1966

[PeternPlymouth]

Hello,

I have an ERA cobra that from what i understand has an original 427 cobra engine in it. The person i bought it from was telling me that the engine will be worth more than the car one day. How can i find out if it is an original 427 FE.

The original builder bought the engine from someone who's cobra was side swiped. Rebuilt it and placed it in the ERA.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Peter

[Sal Gerace]

Look on the front side of the block for for a series of letters and numbers like C5AE-H, A or G.Get the part number to us here and we can tell you what you have.

[Tim Brewer]

Unless it's aluminum, they're all original, and I don't believe any 427 is worth any more than any other 427 except for the parts that make it up. I would also think that "original" would just mean STOCK. I also don't believe an engine will appreciate, but probably depreciate when it clocks up a lot of miles.

[Powershift1038]

Originally Posted by Tim Brewer

I also don't believe an engine will appreciate, but probably depreciate when it clocks up a lot of miles.

Unless it is one of these.....

[Excaliber]

Not so Tim, there are a few of us who value the side oiler above all other engines choices for a 427 Cobra. In many cases the sale or purchase of a Cobra can be directly tied to the type of engine. I know of several cases where a sale was NOT made until verification of the engine's side oiler status. Center oilers need not apply, alloy engines won't cut it. Extreme KC engines just don't have the soul.

Will the engine (427 side oiler) appreciate over time? I wouldn't bank on it! But then I wouldn't bank on ANY replica to appreciate over time. Will it hold it's value? Compared to what? A new BMW, Caddy or whatever? Yeah, it most likely will do better, good chance it will depreciate over time though. DON'T buy a replica for ANY kind of 'investment' purposes!

So how about a 'date coded' 1966 side oiler compared to a 'service block', say 1968 side oiler? The '66 has a better pedigree, a better 'wow' factor, it will certainly garner more respect from me than a service block. And thats true for a number of people not swept up in the 'modern is better' demographics currently in vogue with most replica owners. Some of us are still into 'old school', which is fundamentally what the Cobra is all about in the first place!

Some where along the line many owners have lost the appreciation for that aspect of the car, to many...

Peter, you do something like admire a correct date coded 1966 side oiler because YOU like it. NOT for braggin' rights, not for resale, not to impess somebody (but I AM impressed ) but for the spirit, for the soul, for the history it represents. Drive it proudly (and try not to smirk when the guy parked next to you pops the hood to show of his all alloy 'trick' modern motor, OK?).

Think about it, the really GOOD quality replicas generally have the really GOOD engines, good being a relative term of course. A side oiler in an ERA is pretty common, great car, excellent motor choice, well done! How many side oilers would you find in a Backdraft? An FFR? Any number of other replicas? Not so much. Older Hi Tech? Contemporary? Early Kirkham? All terrific replicas and your likely to find a side oiler under the hood. Built during a time when there was more appreciation for old school than there appears to be today.

[LoBelly]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...Extreme KC engines just don't have the soul...

That's a big call - I have a small block controlled by one of KC's home-spun bump sticks and its the most willing engine I've ever had - I'd say it had soul. I can imagine that one of his FE's has plenty of heart & soul.

Other than that - I hear ya

LoBelly
(small block philistine )

[Excaliber]

Point taken! KC motor sho' nough got mo soul than a crate motor (you Phillistine you).

[undy]

...some people like the weak OEM blocks. What to be better in your high-dollar replica Cobra that a High-dollar replica side oiler, fitting companions.

[Don]

The CarTech publication " High Performance Ford Engine Parts Interchange " lists 20 Ford numbers from 1963 to 1968 as 427 High Performance including Side Oiler, Industrial and Marine, Chapter 11 page 94, available as a download @ $4.00.



http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/s..._ID=2933&DID=6

[Tim Brewer]

Excaliber, I'm only talking about side oilers. I do know they are the engine of choice, I'm just saying they're not going to appreciate over time. Powershift, I agree with you on the Cammer, but that's a diferent animal altogether.

[kurtmart]

Find out what happened to the "Side swiped Cobra". That engine has it's highest value to the person who owns the car it came in.

[Excaliber]

I mostly agree with that Tim and sure wouldn't bank on appreciation, but it will impact resale value of a replica over say a small block, or just about any other engine choice. A side oiler could make the difference in a sale, deal or no deal.

As far as this 427 having a pedigree that traces back to an original, the most you could say about that is, "Rumor has it..." It will be virtually impossible to verify such a claim. That claim combined with "...the engine will be more valuable than the car..." is little more than a 'sales pitch' at best. Without documentation it don't mean squat, but makes a nice story for the local cruise in's. I guess it could be true. FIRST STEP, verify it IS a side oiler! If not, no way it originally came in a Cobra.

My friend has a date coded 1966 side oiler in his older Hi Tech. Rumor's were floating around for awhile it was really a 390, which was devastating to the owner. I checked it out, it's the real deal all right. I'm jealous, mine is only a service block, '68.

"Rumor has it..." my high rise heads and intake came off an original Thunderbolt from Texas, there date coded 1964. Kind of cool, makes a nice story at the local cruise in's. Could be true...

[kurtmart]

Original CSX 3xxx Cars came with Side Oilers, Top Oilers and 428 PIs.

[Excaliber]

I would be interested in documentation that indicates a top oiler 427 was planted in an original Cobra. Could be, but it's news to me. The 428 was used for awhile and then Shelby switched back to 427's (after customer complaints). At any rate the Cobra most of us emulate is the S/C, only 30 or so being built of the approximately 300 total count. S/C, side oiler, stick a fork in it!

"Rumor has it", my favorite saying when it comes to nailing down Cobra history, is that nine of the original cars (later models not early ones) may have had a center oiler.

[ng8264723]

There is no difference reliability wise b/t a CO and a SO. The only difference is bragging rights
chris

[Excaliber]

Reliability, hmmm, a relative term. Center (top) oiler rev limit is around 6000 due to it's inherent weakness of splitting the block at the main journal area. You can spin it higher, but it becomes risky. Side oiler is good for 9000 rpm plus because it is an inherently stronger block, that's why they use it for the SOHC version.

427's and the FE's series engines in general get a bad rap as far as reliabily issues go. They ARE a 100,000 mile motor and ARE extremely reliable when built and used within reasonable parameters. The original side oilers were putting out about 475 horse from the factory and were quite reliable. Today we see many builds exceeding 500 horse, the risk factor goes up accordingly. Stroke it, put in a wild cam, build it to 600 horse and rev the heck out of it and you will eventually break it! Of course thats true for all the modern versions of a side oiler block as well.

Side Oilers powered the GT-40's to a win at Le Man's, 24 hours of pedal to the metal. The FE series engines are certainly reliable and strong enough for even a hard core racer.

[mickmate]

I'm very fond of good FE lineage myself and have heard similar stories. I believe it was unusual for any kind of numbers to tie the FE to any particular Cobra. Having said that I have seen the CSX # stamped into an intake manifold but I don't even think that was done to the cars original motor. There is sooooo much stuff on e-bay that a friend told this guys uncle in law that this part is from a real Cobra. It's the stuff of Cobra legend if you ask me.

[CSX3183]

My 427 Cobra originally was a center oiler, 2X4 Low Riser. After spinning a bearing at Road Atlanta, I had a NASCAR High Nickle Side Oiler installed, at least that was the old wifes tale at that time.

Now I've heard rumblings that High Nickle was BS.

But, Shelby did indeed install Center Oilers, he installed what Ford sent him, it was that simple.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Reliability, hmmm, a relative term. Center (top) oiler rev limit is around 6000 due to it's inherent weakness of splitting the block at the main journal area. You can spin it higher, but it becomes risky. Side oiler is good for 9000 rpm plus because it is an inherently stronger block, that's why they use it for the SOHC version.

427's and the FE's series engines in general get a bad rap as far as reliabily issues go. They ARE a 100,000 mile motor and ARE extremely reliable when built and used within reasonable parameters. The original side oilers were putting out about 475 horse from the factory and were quite reliable. Today we see many builds exceeding 500 horse, the risk factor goes up accordingly. Stroke it, put in a wild cam, build it to 600 horse and rev the heck out of it and you will eventually break it! Of course thats true for all the modern versions of a side oiler block as well.

Side Oilers powered the GT-40's to a win at Le Man's, 24 hours of pedal to the metal. The FE series engines are certainly reliable and strong enough for even a hard core racer.

Actually the inherent weakness of the center/top oiler had nothing to do with block splitting as both side/top oilers were cross bolted which took care of that problem. The non-cross bolted Fees had the high-rpm block failure problems, hence the desirability of the extra block webbing in the 428 Cobra Jet blocks and the later "ribbed" service blocks. I don't believe (not sure though) that the 66 Cobra's 428 PI motors received that extra webbing either. The chink in the top oiler's armor was the lack of priority main oiling. The center/top oilers received oil to the cam first. What was left made it to the crank, maybe. Minor oil starvation conditions caused catastrophic failures in the top oilers. Oil pressure (volume too) to the crank under all conditions was less than with the top oilers too. That's the reason where most will say, other than all out competition (meant to say severe track duty) the top oiler should survive just fine. Most performance engines today, to include my 6 bolt main LS7, receive priority main oiling. lessons learned....

[ng8264723]

The late Mike Ulrey once said that he preferred racing top oilers. He raced CJ's in the 70's and was very sucessful. He dragged raced them and didn't think the side oiler was as strong. I disagree with him there b/c they are basically the same block with the exception of the side oil galleries. MY point is he beat the crap out of the topoilers won major races and did well. The side oiler is definately not stronger and I doubt any even a KC supermotor will tach to 9000RPM for longer than 2 minutes without blowing up
chris