Garage heater info

767Jockey · #1 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 11:17 AM

I want to put a hydronic heater in my garage. It's right by my boiler setup so running the hot water pipes to it will be fairly easy. I was thinking about the ones that look like a box with vanes on the front, and have a rear mounted fan that use hot water for the heat source. I have an oil fired boiler for heat in the home. I have no access here where I love for natural gas, and the price of propane here on Long Island is through the roof. It'll have to be tapped off my home heater unless you guys can think of another idea. By the way, we pay the second highest electric rates in the country, so electric heat is a no go as well. The 2 1/2 car attached garage is 25' by 25' with a 10 foot high ceiling, and has two insulated internal walls, the third outer wall is insulated, and it has a double width door that is steel and insulated in front. The ceiling is insulated and has rooms above it was well. Anyone here that can calculate what size heater I'll need regarding BTU's and ideas on the least expensive heater and supplier? All ideas are welcome, thanks!

FWB · #2 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 12:05 PM

funny you mention this i just added another zone to my boiler. find an old column type cast iron radiator. run feed and return, from the heat side of the boiler,not the domestic water side. you will need a circulator which is switched by a thermostat on the wall. there are online sources for schematics on this.
plumbing supply houses will have "monoflow" inline orfices they look like tee's
but have a restrictor in them, this is needed to keep the water flow down so the hot water spends some time in the radiator to heat it up.

767Jockey · #3 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 01:29 PM

Thanks, actually I wanted a hydronic heater with the fan on it so that I could keep the heat way down in the garage when I'm not in there, then heat it up quickly when I need to go out there and work. I also want it up on the wall and out if the way. Anyone?

lineslinger · #4 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Thanks, actually I wanted a hydronic heater with the fan on it so that I could keep the heat way down in the garage when I'm not in there, then heat it up quickly when I need to go out there and work. I also want it up on the wall and out if the way. Anyone?

Jockey,
Try a PM to NAUMOFF. I believe he could get you pointed in the right direction.

mickmate · #5 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 02:52 PM

You freakin softy, come up here and work in the real cold!
http://cgi.ebay.com/MODINE-HYDRONIC-...3A1%7C294%3A50

vector1 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 03:00 PM

if you had something to circulate the water and stand the pressure an auto radiator might work with a fan.

767Jockey · #7 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

You freakin softy, come up here and work in the real cold!
http://cgi.ebay.com/MODINE-HYDRONIC-...3A1%7C294%3A50

Are you kidding? I've heard how all you so called "manly men" in New Hampshire keep each other warm. I want no part of that action!

mickmate · #8 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 09:33 PM

So you know the reason we call each other Cobra Fags, you should see the secret handshake, and that's with cold hands..............

767Jockey · #9 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

So you know the reason we call each other Cobra Fags, you should see the secret handshake, and that's with cold hands..............

Shrinkage, huh?

OCCOBRA · #10 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 11:46 PM

767JOCKEY
What you are referring to is a "Unit Heater". I am Southwest Regional Manager for the Mestek Boiler Group. We have a company called Beacon Morris that makes such a unit.
A couple of questions
1. Do you know if you have extra capacity in your present boiler? 2. What is the temp of you boiler loop? 3. How fast do you want to heat the room from what temp? What is coldest day that you could imagine wanting to work (Design Day)?
I have limited knowledge on proper sizing of this type unit but could get expert help via my office. I have heard that to heat a space a geeneral factor to consider is 4 btu/cu ft of space. If this is correct you will need approx 25,000 btu/hr. Let me know your current boiler set temperature, and if your current boiler will have enough extra capacity to heat your garage. What size is your boiler, brand/model, and how many cu ft is your house including basement if you are heating that too. I will forward your question to our Professional Engineer and get a sizing for you. My company office is in West Springfield, MA. so they are very familiar with your situation. Let me see is I can help. PM me with answers I shouild have a return to you by Monday afternoon.
Dane

767Jockey · #11 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCCOBRA

767JOCKEY
What you are referring to is a "Unit Heater". I am Southwest Regional Manager for the Mestek Boiler Group. We have a company called Beacon Morris that makes such a unit.
A couple of questions
1. Do you know if you have extra capacity in your present boiler? 2. What is the temp of you boiler loop? 3. How fast do you want to heat the room from what temp? What is coldest day that you could imagine wanting to work (Design Day)?
I have limited knowledge on proper sizing of this type unit but could get expert help via my office. I have heard that to heat a space a geeneral factor to consider is 4 btu/cu ft of space. If this is correct you will need approx 25,000 btu/hr. Let me know your current boiler set temperature, and if your current boiler will have enough extra capacity to heat your garage. What size is your boiler, brand/model, and how many cu ft is your house including basement if you are heating that too. I will forward your question to our Professional Engineer and get a sizing for you. My company office is in West Springfield, MA. so they are very familiar with your situation. Let me see is I can help. PM me with answers I shouild have a return to you by Monday afternoon.
Dane

PM sent - thanks so much for the assistance, Dane!

WildBill1965 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 08:01 PM

I bought a furnace from a trailer, forced hot air for $100. Converted it from kerosene to fuel oil works great and cheaply to operate. .69 of a gallon per hour. Plugs into 110 volt, 3 inch stove pipe.

olddog · #13 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 08:28 PM

My garage is 36 x 50 x 9 tall or 16,200 cubic feet.
Furnace is forced air 100,000 btu/hr 80% effecient so 80K btu/hr goes into garage.
So I have just under 5 btu/ft^3.
garage is insulated and has drywall - finished like inside of a house.
I keep it 35 F in the winter and it will heat to 70 F in ~20 minutes (I never timed it).

A point I will make is that the cement floor is still freaking cold. You crawl under a car and it is cold. You can crank it up to 80 and be sweating when you stand up and it is still freaking cold under a car.

If I built a new garage, I would pour the floor with heating tubing in the floor and use hot water as you describe. I do not know how economical it would be to do this in an existing garage, but if it was me I would ask before I made my final decision. It would be real nice if the heat came up from the floor.

I saved the blower out of an old furnace and plan to duct it to pull heat off the ceiling and blow it under the car. Someday I will get to this, I hope.

Trueoo7 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 08:41 PM

Olddog
My neighbor has this in his garage, I have been in there with socks on, in the dead of winter. You can't beat the heat that comes up from that floor. Very comfortable, you can work like a gentleman. If there is a next time, I WILL have this.

OCCOBRA · #15 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 08:22 AM

In floor radiant is best way to go. Heats a room slowly is also a drawback. Unfortunetley, unless you want to rip up the existing concrete floor your stuck with a fan coil. If you are using a fired device be very sure you are ducting correctly otherwise you may be putting CO (Carbon Monoxide) into the room. Can,t see it, smell it, very deadly. Utilizing the homes existing boiler is a good option if enough capacity is available. Otherwise the home may cool a bit when the garage is pulled into the system.

wtm442 · #16 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 12:16 PM

Big Buddy Propane heater on sale ....

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...H5&marketcode=

mickmate · #17 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 05:12 PM

I have the trailer heater in my shop, the same thing in a couple of my car buddies shops. Works pretty well for a small footprint.

sparks · #18 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 05:32 PM

Get a big electric htr and hook it up to the line side of the meter and it will b free to operate. So ive heard.

OCCOBRA · #19 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 08:10 PM

Our PE at the main office cinfirmed my thoughts on your sizing. It appears that you will have a 25,000 btu/hr load given the factors listed above. Beacon Morris (one of the companies owned by Mestek, my employer) builds a Horizontal Unit Heater Model HB125A which is rated @ 24,800 btu per hour @ 200 deg F entering and 180 deg F leaving. Since your boiler is 160 deg F setpoint you will recieve 23,882 btu/hr output when the water is hottest, and 16,516 btu/hr when the water is @ 120 deg F. As an average say at 140 deg F boiler water your output from the heater would be 20,187 btu/hr with a cold garage (30 deg F) When the room heats up you will get 14,161 btu/hr input when your garage is @ 60 deg F which will keep you nice and toasty. They max flow rate through the unit is 2.5 gpm with a head loss of 2.2 ft hd. This will only utilize a very small zone pump depending on the run. Your loacl Hydronic supplier should be aable to help you pick a pump. I currently do not have a used R & D unit. Apparently these disappear fast after testing.
Check your local supply house, distributor for our product or use another brand if you can find a good deal (you wont hurt my feelings).
If you have an old radiator that is laying around you could use hose to AN fitting adapters (Jegs/Summit have them) and use hose to connect AN/NPT fittings to your existing piping, then get a fan that will do at least 500-600 CFM to blow through the radiator. For a car guy that would really be cool and would/could be cheaper. Just a thought.
Hope this helps. Any other questions and PM me
Dane

Bill Bess · #20 (**permalink**) 12-09-2008, 07:16 AM

The best way to heat up the old workshop is to fire up Mr. Heater, sit in a circle of chairs and drink alot of beer. The bench racing alone will generate approximarely 25'000 to 50'000 BTU's of heat. If more heat is desired, turn the on game the TV or turn up the music..that's good for maybe another 25'000 BTU's.
If still too cold crack open a window and fire up the Bar-B and grill some stuff ( oh you might need a fan to blow the smoke out)...There is no limit to the methods of generating garage heat.

I have a queation, does BTU mean Buy Thermo Underwear?

Last but not least..move to Lake Havasu City in Arizona...it currently is getting down to 50 degrees at night and 75 during the day.

Good luck with heating the garage.

Bill..ps. I'm looking for my shorts and flpflops so I can go work in the garage.