Nascar '09

[Ibr8k4vetts]

I was just looking at the NASCAR '09 schedule and they have changed the Las Vegas U.A.W. race to the Shelby 427 I guess there was not enough bailout money for the U.A.W. to keep the race.

[FIA-ERA]

This I believe is the first of many changes!! It will be a pretty interesting season for sure. To think we thought the "silly season" had already passed. What do you guy's think? Tony will probably sink with GM's problems. Where are all these top notch mechanics going after round after round of lay offs? I think the big surprise next year will be Robby Gordan now switching to Toyota. I really think next year will be a tough year in general with all Motorsports! I say, lets get back to grass roots racing and real "stock" cars.

[elmariachi]

NASCAR has gotten stupidly large and out of control. And the car companies have been right in the middle of it. The cars are all the same, the sponsorships and enormous financial involvement has smothered out the real sport. Its all about advertising and pretty-boy personalities. That ain't racing. If the car companies go home, the big sponsors take a break and France has to rethink what it takes to draw a crowd, maybe they'll figure out that people want to see a race and not a parade. The fastest way to fill the stands is abandon the car of tomorrow, remove all restrictor plates, publish and consistently enforce one uniform set of standards and rules for engines and cars, and get the hell out of the way and let 'em race. And if that means Ford beats Chevy 10 races in a row by 10 laps (or vice versa), then that's just the way it is.

Off my soapbox...

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

NASCAR has gotten stupidly large and out of control. And the car companies have been right in the middle of it. The cars are all the same, the sponsorships and enormous financial involvement has smothered out the real sport. Its all about advertising and pretty-boy personalities. That ain't racing. If the car companies go home, the big sponsors take a break and France has to rethink what it takes to draw a crowd, maybe they'll figure out that people want to see a race and not a parade. The fastest way to fill the stands is abandon the car of tomorrow, remove all restrictor plates, publish and consistently enforce one uniform set of standards and rules for engines and cars, and get the hell out of the way and let 'em race. And if that means Ford beats Chevy 10 races in a row by 10 laps (or vice versa), then that's just the way it is.

Off my soapbox...

Agreed. This is why I so enjoy watching the American Le Mans Series as well as the Rolex Series. Great racing.

[SPF2245]

I actually am leaning more towards standard car chassis (the exterior needs to be a little more like what's on the street), power-plants switch to a standardized fuel injection, Nascar provides the computers, all have to use the same generic box (limit RPMs to 6-6500rpms so the cost of development and building would allow privateers to enter). Keep all weight restrictions the same and allow these guys to race not on budgets but on talent. Then if a Ford wins 10 in a row, it was the driver, not the budget or the team alone that got it done.

If Nascar doesn't do something soon, it will be left with 15-20 teams with budgets and 10or so teams that just drive in the back of the field with no hope of ever winning, regardless of the quality of the driver for either group. That is why I like the different racing offered by Mazda, standard cars (open wheeled or their Miata's) where the drivers control the race, not the budget.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Agreed. This is why I so enjoy watching the American Le Mans Series as well as the Rolex Series. Great racing.

Amen to that. I wish I lived closer where I could see one of the races in person. The competition is stout and driver talent makes all the difference.

Originally Posted by SPF2245

I actually am leaning more towards standard car chassis (the exterior needs to be a little more like what's on the street),

If Nascar doesn't do something soon, it will be left with 15-20 teams with budgets and 10or so teams that just drive in the back of the field with no hope of ever winning, regardless of the quality of the driver for either group.

I vote you in and Bill France Jr out.

[Wayne Maybury]

I actually like "run what ya brung" racing. Rules should be limited to safety standards, minimum weight, maximum engine displacement, body dimensions (height, width, length), number & size of tires, etc. These are also supposed to be "stock" cars so they should have to start off with a stock body like they did in the old days.

Wayne

[Ron61]

I don't watch much NASCAR any more as to me it really isn't racing but more of a high speed parade.I like road racing more and watch as much of that as I can. And there are more of the cheaper types of racing starting to spring up around here. Thunder Hill has a series now I believe that basically uses older cars that are safe and have the safety equipment in them.

Also NASCAR has lost their sponsor for the Watkins Glen Race as the boat company that has been sponsoring it opted out of their last year of the contract saying it was to expensive and they are having to cut back to stay in business. I don't believe this will be a great year for NACAR as they may have to face the fact they aren't the greatest racing on the planet.

Ron

[Bartruff1]

If that was ever true it might have been when they actually raced cars that were at least similar to the cars that you could buy...eg Trans Am in the 60's and Stock Cars in the 50's. NASCAR is whistling past the grave yard now, there are not 15 teams that have budgets to make them competitive. To hear the double talk by the big three about the need to market thru NASCAR is just laughable, it is simply boys and their toys. If you can name a car that increased market share by racing (Porche, Ferrari) , I can name 20 that had great success and are now long gone. Both Hendrick and Penske are very big dealership companies. The dealers are in big trouble. Penske is a public company (PAG) and you can look at their filings, it isn't pretty. Roush is very dependent on the auto industry. I can not believe that the big three, or even the big 4 if you include Toyota will be able to justify to their stockholders the cost of racing. I understand Honda is out of F1. I would not be surprised to see racing return to it's roots and I for one think that is a good deal.

[Ron61]

Win on Sunday sell on Monday...yea right !

Actually I have read 1 (one ) story about that that was true. Back in the early days of drag racing being the craze, one of the brothers that owned Grand Spalding Dodge told it. He said that he liked to work in the garage and his brother preferred office work, so he was out in the garage with the mechanics and some kid came in and told him that if he would give him a set of spark plug wires and plugs he would paint their name on his car for the weekend races. He said he didn't even know what drag racing was but after talking to the kid, went over to the parts department and told them to give him what he wanted. He said he then forgot about it until Monday morning when they had 5 people come in and tell them they wanted a Dodge just like the one that won at the drag races Sunday. But so far as NASCAR goes, I don't think that has been much of a selling point for many years.

Ron

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

To hear the double talk by the big three about the need to market thru NASCAR is just laughable, it is simply boys and their toys.

Originally Posted by Ron61

Win on Sunday sell on Monday...yea right !Ron

Of course now, its "Win on Sunday, run out on Monday and git yer "America Online, Callaway, Domino's, Gillette, Old Spice, The Home Depot and Sprint." It isn't even about the cars anymore, they are buried in the fray as rolling billboards. And the fans (my teenage son being one) have no recollection of what real stock car racing was. All they know is " I need me some of that Gillette Body Wash 'cuz Tony and Jeff use it."

I think major reform is headed NASCAR's way, and I'd like to see a driver change too. The Young Punks like Tony couldn't keep their tempers in check if another driver outraced their ass because they simply had a better car.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Of course now, its "Win on Sunday, run out on Monday and git yer "America Online, Callaway, Domino's, Gillette, Old Spice, The Home Depot and Sprint." It isn't even about the cars anymore, they are buried in the fray as rolling billboards. And the fans (my teenage son being one) have no recollection of what real stock car racing was. All they know is " I need me some of that Gillette Body Wash 'cuz Tony and Jeff use it."

I think major reform is headed NASCAR's way, and I'd like to see a driver change too. The Young Punks like Tony couldn't keep their tempers in check if another driver outraced their ass because they simply had a better car.

Boy is that ever so. I don't listen to the interviews at all as they spend all their time trying to remember who all they are supposed to thank for their great triump. I too feel thast NASCAR is going to face a major change very soon. But in my case I really don't care as I much prefer the other types of racing.

Ron

[Bartruff1]

The kid might be right about the body wash, but I don't even know what a body wash is !!!! I know the agencies will argue that minutes of eyeballs will convert to sales and will generate all kinds of $'s worth of airtime minutes but to tell you the truth I am very skeptical that Dupont or Tide can produce any evidence to show a positive improvement in sales as a result of their involvement in NASCAR. I personally don't recall ever buying a product based upon advertising but then I am not in their 18-35 demographic Target (No pun intended) . Now if the kid actually has the girls climbing all over him let me know about it as soon as possible.

[Joe Wicked]

Well the average American is an idiot that believes the product in the commercial will get them laid.

[Ron61]

Just read this on the news. Chrysler is going to shut down for a while but won't pull out of NASCAR. With the few teams Dodge has, it seems to me that would be a good place to save somemoney.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

[am6948]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Amen to that.

I wish I lived closer where I could see one of the races in person. The competition is stout and driver talent makes all the difference.



I vote you in and Bill France Jr out.

Elmriachi,

If you are close to Fort Worth you can see on in person, NASCAR races are held in April and November.

[Joe Wicked]

I think he was referring to the Le Mans races

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Just read this on the news. Chrysler is going to shut down for a while but won't pull out of NASCAR. With the few teams Dodge has, it seems to me that would be a good place to save somemoney.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

That is very informative and interesting but I think it is still whistling past the graveyard. I am sure the man is telling you what he thinks is the truth but I wonder if he can see the forest for the trees. The Golden Rule is that " He that has the gold makes the rules " and the people that are being ask to provide the gold (The taxpayers/bond holders/stockholders) are going to have to be convinced that there is a positive cost benefit associated to racing and I believe that will be a tough sell. It is my understanding that it is the Dodge Dealers that provide the funding ? They may be in bigger trouble than the Company . It will be interesting to see what happens. I remember siting and watching in disbelief when the World Trade Center came down on that sad day. It was just a few weeks ago that the spokesmen for Fanny/Freddy/Leman Bros/Citi/Goldman/Madoff.. etc were telling everyone that things were ok....well, they weren't

[Silverback51]

One interesting view.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/16/i...376x1200979994

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

One interesting view.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/16/i...376x1200979994

are always interesting but tend to be on the far left of what are called environmental wacko's. Car racing is a product and there is market for auto racing and it won't go away, but it may not be the current NASCAR product. As you know, Silverback, the big three have withdrawn their support from stock car racing several times in the past and it survived. I can think of several series that bet their survival on the continued support of the auto manufactures and they have had serious trouble when that support left, it is a failed business model. Stock Car Racing is a pretty large industry and will survive but most likely not in it's current state.