Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please

[LMH]

Has anyone thought of or tried using "Tuner" lug nuts?
Depending on the brand, they are hardened, use an Allen to tighten and should be about the right length for Trigo's. Vintage I'm not sure about.
Just wonder if anyone has tried them.
Larry

[strictlypersonl]

Those look interesting, but I don't have the specs for either the Trigo or Vintage lug nuts at hand. Both diameter and length are critical. The holes in the wheel come very close to breaking through to the outside surface so the hole depth in the wheel cannot be increased. And obviously, the diameter's clearance in the hole must be within about 0.010"...

[1985 CCX]

Pat

That is just not nice!
5 pin are just as funtional and safe as 6 pin......
Vintage produce a high quality part and great wheels. Have never had any problems with mine at all. Actually the biggest problem is getting them to look old as mother nature needs to do her part.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Pat

That is just not nice!
5 pin are just as funtional and safe as 6 pin.......

You're right. I'm sure it was just the result of me being trapped in the house.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

Those look interesting, but I don't have the specs for either the Trigo or Vintage lug nuts at hand. Both diameter and length are critical. The holes in the wheel come very close to breaking through to the outside surface so the hole depth in the wheel cannot be increased. And obviously, the diameter's clearance in the hole must be within about 0.010"...

My Trigo pins are 1-3/16" long, 3/4" diameter. I'm not sure what the hole measures on the wheels. I could waltz my ever-increasing rearend out to the shop and measure them but it's cold out there!
Larry

[Rick Parker]

The hole size in the wheel for the Trigo or PS nuts & maybe others using a .750 nut is is 49/64ths, creating a .0156 clearance. The depth in the wheel may vary depending on whether the holes are machined after the back spacing is set or before. Occasionally after torquing all the "Nuts" you can find that the wheel will not fit over the protruding pattern because for one reason or another the nuts are not in a perfectly circular pattern. If this happens a "rap" with a block of wood and a hammer can move an individual stud or nut the minute amount necessary to effect the wheel fitting over the circular group of nuts. This is a rare case. There was a tool available that had the 5 hole pattern matching the wheel which was fit over the nuts prior to their final torquing to assure they stayed in the correct pattern to allow fitament of the wheel.

[jmimac351]

You can also put a pipe on the pin to perform precision tweakage, as necessary.

[496fe]

Craig (CDNUS) is on the right track. The problem I had was when I didn't have the hex key/socket adapter dead straight in the hole. If you tighten the studs/adapters when the key is cocked even a little you WILL crack them. Either be sure you keep the key wrench perfectly straight when tightening or make an adapter like CDNUS's.

[Dominik]

Good morning!

I am glad to see some experienced guys helping out with the sleeve nut - again.
Since I bought my first set from Trigo in 2000 I (and many others) battled with the sleeve nuts.

They had the wrong taper, thread not parallel to outside causing them to sit skew, were too soft, too short, too long, you named it...

Initially, because they were sleeve nuts for aftermarket 5-lug rims, mounted visible where it didn't matter if they sat a bit skew.

Do not try to bend them straight to mount the wheel, they bend back when you drive and you won't get the wheel off. Also, you don't want to bend a critical (wheel) stud.

The "new" version cracking or splitting is not new either. (The hex is splitting when inserting the "Allen" key).

In my eyes, there is only one solution:

Get them made from a decent material. Made, as in:
On a lathe/mill. With a hex head to accept a 5/8" spanner or socket (like the ones seen on the CAV GT40).

I wish someone in the US, or here for Vintage Wheels (Wheelcraft) had the backbone to invest in a little extra cost to CNC manufacture those nuts. It's been 8+ years of hassle...

We are talking thousands of nuts to replace the dangerous sh*** ones at very little cost.

David:
Poland might be a good place to manufacture them ;-)

Dom

[Rick Parker]

If necessary trim the length: #6403 internal hex, #6503 Torx type

http://xtreempolish.com/TunerLugNuts.html

[Dominik]

Rick, I am afraid those Tuner nuts are NOT true (thread parallel to outside).

So they will sit skew on the stud causing the wheels to get stuck.
Did anybody check them?

Screw them on a straight stud or bolt and start the lathe or drill press. Check for wobble.
They were not meant to be suitable for our application.

Dom

[David Kirkham]

Dominik,

OK, we'll do it. Anyone got one they can send us to look at. I'll get a quote out quick.

Here is the last batch of pins I made for the guys who want our original suspension. I was tired of the internal allen stripping on the original drive pins so I just made them with an external hex. I don't know if you guys have enough room in your wheel to do that or not.

Just for reference, the pin is 0.500 in diameter and the threads are 3/8-24.

Does anyone know how much engagement they have on their nuts to the wheel?

Here are the pics. What do you guys think about these? Notice they are all deburred by the CNC with a nice radius. The dimple in the top was to reduce weight (I know it isn't much) and to make them look good. They are made from 17-4 stainless--really tough stuff.

[Rick Parker]

How about some sleeve nuts, .750 OD, .500 blind hole 1/2" threaded with the hex and 60 degree chamfer, those look very nice.

[cdnus]

David,
the nuts we are using are basically a threaded sleeve with a short hex broached in 1 end
which is installed over the original shortened wheel studs.
Yours appear to be for a hub that is threaded, therefore not suitable for a spinner adaptor application. But I'm sure when someone close too you sends you a sample you will come up with a superior solution as you usually do.

Craig

[csx wnab]

Originally Posted by patrickt

80 ft/lbs for the drive pins is too much. The specs for my drive pins are 35 ft/lbs with RED Locktite.

according to mike evangelo at dynamic in ohio. 80 lbs.-no locktight. do not use an impact at any time.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

How about some sleeve nuts, .750 OD, .500 blind hole 1/2" threaded with the hex and 60 degree chamfer, those look very nice.

Send a drawing or a part and I'll quote it for you.

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by cdnus

David,
the nuts we are using are basically a threaded sleeve with a short hex broached in 1 end
which is installed over the original shortened wheel studs.
Yours appear to be for a hub that is threaded, therefore not suitable for a spinner adaptor application. But I'm sure when someone close too you sends you a sample you will come up with a superior solution as you usually do.

Craig

Yes, the pins we made actually thread into the brake rotor on the back of the hub (original style set up). The original Cobra hub has a 0.500" recess in the hub to accept the pin. The pin goes through the hub and then threads into the rotor. The pin then has a lock nut on the back side of the rotor to keep everything together.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on this new application.

David

[Blas]

Just thinking out loud here...wondering if a industrutable pin design would mean the rim itself gets destroyed? I still think there is another issue here with the pins getting loose in the first place...
David, if you used the basic Trigo style pin, but only drilled and tapped the internal threads into it to a depth required by the wheel stud. (flat bottomed tap) Then machined the hex on to to end of the pin just enough to get a socket on to it. I have a few new Trigo pins to use as reference if you like...

[David Kirkham]

The rim can only get hurt if there is relative movement somewhere (either by the pins moving or the wheel moving). Neither one is good. Making the pins out of good material will not solve either of these problems. (Unless the material is so lousy it is yielding and the pin is coming loose). Making the pins out of lousy material can have all sorts of other undesirable effects. Making the pins out of good material only has benefits.

David

[David Kirkham]

Blas,

Drop them in the mail to me and we will get this sorted out. Thanks for helping. Any parts you need? I'll make you a good deal!

David