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01-02-2009, 11:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cape Town,
WP
Cobra Make, Engine: Shamrock Cobra, Chev 350
Posts: 7
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Not Ranked
Us guys in Cape Town are always awake !
__________________
peterv
Shamrock Cobra with Chev 350 & Turbo 350, in Cape Town, South Africa.
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01-03-2009, 05:50 AM
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Premier Motorsports 427SC
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Cobra Make, Engine: Premier Motorsports
Posts: 97
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Not Ranked
Those do look good .If your going to make a batch I would be interested in a set of 20 for my car .
Chris
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01-03-2009, 01:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnus
David,
I had checked for some reason a while ago how much material was left in the rim at the bottom of the holes & it didn't seem like much was there. I phoned Bob & he confirmed that they cannot be deepened for fear of breaking through the front.
So mine at least are limited to a total length of approx .750".
Someone with a different backspacing may have deeper holes, but I believe Vintage only supplies 1 style of nut regardless. I am unaware if they have changed to a non-tapered ( flat bottom) style of nut.
Thanks Craig
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Craig,
Do you have a special back-spacing on your rims? Can you measure your back spacing? Thanks!
David
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01-03-2009, 01:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham
Craig,
The Trigo unit is 1 inch tall (not counting the taper) so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement which is fine. The overall length of the Trigo is 1.188 inches.
David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominik
David, you said:
"...so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement (of thread) which is fine."
The thread must go all the way through, else you "bottom out" when fitting the nuts.
The wheel stud is too long!
And that the taper have different angles doesn't help either...
Yes, it was 1:30am, now it's 8am. I do the float test later - with red wine!
Dom
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Dom,
I didn't make myself very clear. I didn't mean 3/4" of engagement "of thread" I meant 3/4" engagement of the pin to the wheel.
David
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01-03-2009, 01:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterv
Us guys in Cape Town are always awake !
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Lions, hippos, asps, Cobras, Black Mambas, hyenas, jackals, politicians, Great Whites, elephants, rhinos, you name it...have to keep an eye out!
David
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01-03-2009, 01:20 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by 427PMS
Those do look good .If your going to make a batch I would be interested in a set of 20 for my car .
Chris
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Chris,
Which type do you need? Tapered? (What angle). Length? Flat? Let me know and I'll work up a price on Monday when I can call the metal supplier.
David
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01-03-2009, 02:08 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF#0760
Posts: 3,405
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Not Ranked
David,
I have a new Trigo rim sitting in my garage if you need a reference for holes and I have the Trigo pin tool if you want to check a 5 pin fit-up. (Amazing the stuff you find in a clean garage... ) Everyone should also remember that Superformance cars only used Trigo rims early on. First they had steel wheels with fake hubs, then Trigo's and then WAW's. I don't know if the pins are all the same, (Dia and length) but I do know for sure that the spinners are different on Trigo and WAW rims...
edit:
I looked it up:
up to 300ish - steel wheels
300ish to 800ish - Trigo wheels
800ish and up - WAW wheels
I also find some notes about the taper angle changing from the early pins to the newer pins...quote...
"...early stud-bolts (green/brown) with the 1/2" allen-key tended to warp and expand, the later ones (silver) with the 12mm key seem not to be parallel looking at thread and barrel, plus the taper is not the same as the one on the adapter. no matter what you torque, it is prone to loosen..."
Interesting old thread on CC in "Shop Talk" area - search Trigo Pin - then read "Trigo pins binding" thread...
__________________
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Owner’s Manuals: SPF MKII, CSX7000, CSX8000, Sebring, Bondurant, Cinema Tribute Cars $ GT40’s..
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Last edited by Blas; 01-03-2009 at 02:27 PM..
Reason: more info found
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01-03-2009, 11:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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Not Ranked
Yes,
the problems have been around since years. The nuts which have been used were merely a band-aid. Wheels sticking, nuts cracking, warping...
The nut issue should be solved. It's only a matter of stud length and thread (for BMW suspension cars).
Unfortunately, that is not the end of the knock-off wheel problems.
Taper angle from the wing nut and wheel also seem to be different, causing seizure.
In my opinion the thread of the nut should also be more loose to allow the nut to center in the wheel, and not on the thread causing it to seize (and brake when trying to knock off)
There are also tolerances that add up in a very non-beneficial way some time. Like centering of the adapter on the hub, and then getting clamped by the taper of the nuts.
Trying to "center" the adapter once more.
Maybe we can catch the manufacturer's attention to look into that some time...
Wheelcraft/Vintage has their own solution, allowing a lot of play between nut and hole in the wheel. Their multi PCD adapter with 10 holes is suitable for BMW, Merc, FORD and Chev (Jag). Metric PCDs and Imperial are off by a couple of tenths.
Dom
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01-04-2009, 08:48 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: toronto,
ont
Cobra Make, Engine: 408w 500 h.p. 550 ft.lbs
Posts: 562
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Not Ranked
David,
My wheels are pretty much standard Vintage that I purchased in Dec. 2004.
Front-HAO2F-4"backspace
Rear-HAO2R-4"backspace
At that time they offered 3.6" or 4" only.
I am certain if you contacted Bob @ Vintage he would be thrilled to speak with you about your nuts (LOL), as I know he has had quality problems in the past & he would be very happy to secure a quality supplier like yourself
Thanks Craig
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01-04-2009, 10:12 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: monroe,nc,us,
nc
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 408 stroker
Posts: 33
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Not Ranked
If you are needing a count you can put me down for 20 of the size to fit the Vintage wheels.
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01-04-2009, 06:43 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester,
MO
Cobra Make, Engine: Hurricane - FE
Posts: 625
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Not Ranked
Trigo Instructions
Everyone is throwing around torque values, Loctite/No Loctite, Red/Blue but it really depends on the brand and style of wheel and pin drive.
Just to help clear the confusion, this is a copy of the instructions for Trigo Wheels - the ones produced by Lynn Park. I can not confirm they are still the same for the SoCal produced ones
The old Trigo's were calling for 60 ft. lbs and no mention of thread locker.
Paul
Trigo_Instructions.pdf |
01-05-2009, 01:02 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Saratoga Springs,
UT
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 3850, 95 Cobra 5.0 EFI, IRS, Pin Drive 15" real Magnesium Halibrands & Vintage Wheels, Billboards & Mickey Thompson S/T tires, Blue/Wht Stripes, Hoops, CSX Dash, Konis, VPMs, Torsen
Posts: 626
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Not Ranked
David,
I have Trigo adapters and rims, chromed.
Also have magnesium rims, Halibrand.
The Trigo pins were/are a pain. Mine are true now as tested at speed, so I dare not remove an adapter.
Terry Stapley here has just installed Vintage Wheels. They are very, very nice units. BTW, his pins seem perfect, no issues at all. Wheels went right on after he tightened them. Terry used anti-sieze liberally on everything.
On the Jag-based fronts, a person named Simon makes a replacement hub w pins to match the 5-pin wheels, eliminating the adapters altogether. In the image below, the Simon hub is on the left, on the right is the stock Jag hub w adapter (no pins shown).
The question came up if the Vintage and Trigo spinners had the same threads, so I tried Terry's Vintage spinners on my Trigo adapters. They fit the same it appears, threaded right on by hand.
Test of spinner threads.
Here is a Trigo spinner on a Trigo adapter:
Here are both spinners, Gold is Trigo, Polished is Vintage:
Here is the Vintage spinner on the Trigo adapter:
So, from what I can tell, the wheels and spinners are interchangeable.
More testing can be done if it would "help the cause".
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01-05-2009, 03:22 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 5,391
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Not Ranked
That's cool!
Does anyone make a hub that fit Trigo's for Mustang II spindles?
Larry
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01-05-2009, 05:56 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF#0760
Posts: 3,405
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Not Ranked
Larry,
I have been told that a Trigo spinner will work on a WAW wheel but a WAW spinner will not work on a Trigo wheel. SOOOOOO....If the WAW wheel and the Vintage wheel have the same angle on the face of the spinner...the first sentence applies for Vintage wheels....It has to do with the angle of the bearing face and the spinners coming loose...
__________________
Wiring Diagrams: SPF MKII, MKIII, GT40, CSX7000, CSX8000, Corvette Grand Sport, and Shelby Sebring, Bondurant & Cinema Tribute Cars.
Owner’s Manuals: SPF MKII, CSX7000, CSX8000, Sebring, Bondurant, Cinema Tribute Cars $ GT40’s..
Large, easy to read and trace schematics with part numbers, wire colors, wire gauge, fuses, and electrical upgrade information. Trouble-shooting and replacement part numbers for those roadside repair adventures.
SPFWiringDiagrams@Comcast.net
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01-05-2009, 09:00 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Larry,
Thanks for the pics! If you are down in Provo, I'd like to take a look at those parts to take some measurements. I'd like to confirm angles.
LMH,
Interesting thought...I imagine we could figure something out.
Blas,
What is a WAW wheel? (We have mainly used Trigos over the years).
I will quote the pins tomorrow. I got the stainless quote back late today. Not as bad as I thought. I thought it would be 4 times as expensive as chromoly--it was only 3 times!
David
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01-05-2009, 10:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 5,391
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Not Ranked
Quote:
LMH,
Interesting thought...I imagine we could figure something out.
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I'm getting excited! 
Larry |
01-05-2009, 11:21 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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Not Ranked
Great input, now we are getting somewhere! :-)
I wish the adapters were not countersunk and the nuts flat. But that would mean all adapter manufacturers must read this thread...
The adapters are countersunk, because of the available nuts. One could drill the taper out...
Vintage (which are made in South-Africa by Wheelcraft/WAW) feature flat nuts and adapters.
The Jag conversion reminds me of Contemporary's setup. Those days for 6-pin, which were very heavy and expensive for the front. And even more expensive for the rear, but they worked like a dream!
What is ERA's version? (there should be a link not popping up from Bob)
Dom
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01-05-2009, 11:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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I meant: "...now popping up"
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If I don't respond anymore, that's because I can't log in
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01-06-2009, 04:54 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New Britain,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Size 10 Feet
Posts: 3,021
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Not Ranked
We only make one-piece 6-pin hubs that fit a GM spindle (front) and the Jag bearings (rear).
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01-06-2009, 07:22 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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Lovely!
And what is your gap between pin drive (stud) and hole in the wheel?
Wheelcraft has 7/10mm in diameter to allow for metric and imperial PCD wheels to fit.
Is the torque transfered via the studs or the wheel clamped by the wing nut?
Or both?
I know that my mate's Can-Am has quite short pin drives to turn the wheel.
And so have various Lolas. They do, however, feature steel insert in the mags.
Dom
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