Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please

[Paul F]

David,

I'd like to get in on this. I have Compomotive wheels and the units in your picture appear to be the units used on Compomotive as well. I've used up all my spares. But I'll try to get one off the car tonight (without splitting it) and mail it to you. If this group settles on something, I suggest we start a new thread to make sure everyone is aware that there are new pin drives for Vintage, Compomotive, and others now available so we can get some volume going.

[strictlypersonl]

Originally Posted by Dominik

And what is your gap between pin drive (stud) and hole in the wheel?
Wheelcraft has 7/10mm in diameter to allow for metric and imperial PCD wheels to fit.

Less than 0.015", I hope

Is the torque transfered via the studs or the wheel clamped by the wing nut?
Or both?

I suspect that after the wheel has "mated" with the mounting surface, most of the torque is taken by the flange surface. I know that if the wheel is run loose under high-torque circumstances, the pins are liable to break.

I know that my mate's Can-Am has quite short pin drives to turn the wheel.
And so have various Lolas. They do, however, feature steel insert in the mags.

We followed the original design's dimensions pretty closely. It takes a lot to trash the holes in the wheels. I never seen it happen.

[cdnus]

LARRY,
It would be interesting to try the Vintage wheel on the installed Trigo hub & adapter & see if it seats properly with the spinner tightened & vise-versa.
From some previous posts it sounds as though the Trigo pins may be too long for the Vintage holes & would bottom out before the rim seats properly.

Craig

[Rick Parker]

The Trigo instructions state that the threaded stud should only protude 5/8" (.625) from the face of the adapter, the adapter is 3/8" (.375) thick. This means the stud is to be 1.0" from the brake rotor face. If this dimension is dismissed and not taken into account, the internal hex or star tool will be progresively (and perhaps unkowingly) pushed out as the nut is being tightened down on the stud, causing a minimal length of the tool to be engaged at the exact time the most torque is being applied. Then if care is not taken to keep the tool correctly engaged (IE: torque wrench cocked to one side using one hand) the twisting force can be applied and spread open the end of the nut as some have experienced. So a word to the wise...it may be necessary to remove the studs and ultimately have their legnth reduced and then be reinstalled. This is a very important step. With the .750 diameter tapered nuts installed and securing the adapter, the diameter of the holes in the wheel are 49/64ths (.765) leaving a .015 clearance. The holes in the wheel are a little over (unmeasured at this point) 1.000" deep.
Those with a keen eye will notice these adapters use 6 in lieu of 5 threaded studs and Trigo nuts on a 4.25 bolt circle. I had my heart set on putting FIA wheels on a Ford 9" rear end. These wheels require a 6 pin pattern because of the mounting pad on the OEM style FIA wheels. Trigo had yet to bring their own FIA wheel to market that was patterned to use a common 5 pin adapter. I purchased the adapters blank from Trigo and machined my own 6 hole pattern (4.25" diameter) and had the new axles machined for the same pattern.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Dominik]

Thanks everybody!

One more:

It is tempting to use imperial 1/2" (FORD, Jag, GM) threaded nuts on Metric M12 (BMW, Merc).
They seem to fit, but won't last... Pitch is almost identical, stud diameter is not!
The metric nuts won't fit over the imperial studs.

Let's get orders for David that the CNC can run for a few hours after is has been set up.
A new thread may be wise.

Dom

[CNGreen]

Put me down for a full set (20) for my Lynn Park Trigos.

David, I'm still building (almost done) so let me know if you want me to send you an adaptor or sample nut.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by CNGreen

Put me down for a full set (20) for my Lynn Park Trigos.

David, I'm still building (almost done) so let me know if you want me to send you an adaptor or sample nut.

Might be good to get an adapter out here to make sure we have the right taper going on.

I am in the middle of the quote right now. Actually, I already ordered the stainless already. It will be here in a few days.

David

[David Kirkham]

Oh boy, there is a 1/2-20 AND an M12 thread???

Better make sure everyone orders these things correctly. The Trigo ones we have are 1/2-20 thread.

David

[CNGreen]

David,

Thanks for taking my call. The Pin adapter and lug bolt will ship tomorrow.

[LMH]

David, do you need a Trigo adapter?
I'm not using mine if you need one, so it's no hardship for me to send you one.
Larry

[David Kirkham]

Thanks!

CNG and LMH! Looks like CNG is going to send it out so we will get this all finished up quickly.

David

[427PMS]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Chris,

Which type do you need? Tapered? (What angle). Length? Flat? Let me know and I'll work up a price on Monday when I can call the metal supplier.

David

David ,
I have the same Trigo pins as in your picture
chris

[David Kirkham]

Thanks!

David

[David Kirkham]

Gents,

Ok, I finally finished the quote.

Here it is.

We can do the pins (like in the CAD drawing above) for $10 each. The cost is driven by the high cost of the raw material and the heat treating. There is quite a bit of handling involved to make a really nice part. I don't think the pins that you guys have are heat treated from what I can gather--but I would have to check the hardness on one to know for sure.

First 10 SALE:

For the first 10 CC members who purchase a set of 20 each, I will sell them for $7 each.

Now, I need to add:

We need 10 sets ordered before we can start the run so it is cost effective to do the programming, set up and first run. So, the 10 sets have to be all the SAME set! For example. 10 sets of the Trigo type with the taper on them--1/2-20 thread.

We will also extend this sale to 10 sets of the Vintage type (which from my understanding is flat--no taper--and has an M12 thread.

If I am wrong LET ME KNOW!

Production will begin after 10 sets are ordered and I confirm the angle from CNG's adapter.

David

[Paul F]

I'm in for a set of 20, but first I'd like to send you one of mine to make sure its the same. I'll send it out tomorrow.

[Paul F]

Make that a set of 22. Might as well have a couple of extras.

[427PMS]

David
I am in for a set of 20 for the Trigo pins, I hope we can get enough interest for you to make a run . Keep me informed .

Thanks Chris

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Gents,

Ok, I finally finished the quote.

Here it is.

We can do the pins (like in the CAD drawing above) for $10 each. The cost is driven by the high cost of the raw material and the heat treating. There is quite a bit of handling involved to make a really nice part. I don't think the pins that you guys have are heat treated from what I can gather--but I would have to check the hardness on one to know for sure.

First 10 SALE:

For the first 10 CC members who purchase a set of 20 each, I will sell them for $7 each.

Now, I need to add:

We need 10 sets ordered before we can start the run so it is cost effective to do the programming, set up and first run. So, the 10 sets have to be all the SAME set! For example. 10 sets of the Trigo type with the taper on them--1/2-20 thread.

We will also extend this sale to 10 sets of the Vintage type (which from my understanding is flat--no taper--and has an M12 thread.

If I am wrong LET ME KNOW!

Production will begin after 10 sets are ordered and I confirm the angle from CNG's adapter.

David

What grade of stainless material and what hardness for the heat treat?

[David Kirkham]

17-4 Ph H900

[cdnus]

David,
The Vintage site states on the "products page" pin lugs available in sizes
1/2"X20
7/16"X20
12mm.X1.5
As far as as the taper goes I believe most have a taper, mine do.

Craig