Side Pipe builder's ?

[FUNFER2]

The ceramic coating on my pipes are basically done for and will not polish out anymore. My cobra is a Lone Star, and were not sprayed well new and the welding,.....sucked. I'm thinking about increasing the size of the pipe for more flow. I'll be honest, I have no idea how the mufflers are welded in, screwed in ect. I'm a side pipe virgin.

Here's some questions.

Are there any builders that you would recommend ?

I am capable of welding these myself so, is there a parts list from any company ?

Is stainless really a better choice, even though the price is very high ?

Is there any information and testing results, regarding different sizing of the muffler section ?

I believe the glass pack is all but blown out, but actually, I like the loud grunt sound. I don't have any idea, just how much of the packing is left until I cut them apart.

What mufflers are suited for side pipes ?

Is there any that are tunable, like the "Super Trap" that are easy to tune in a side pipe ?

Does anyone have a building book, diagram, instruction sheet ect.

If using steel, can you rust coat them inside before putting in the muffler ?

As loud as mine are, and not knowing how much of the glass pack is left, it's actually pretty soft at highway speeds, there's more wind noise than muffler.

I want a radical sound (very important) high quality muffler and long life.

I've see someone's beautiful pipes here on CC, that the cost was over 3k. I really don't want to spend that much but, you get what you pay for in life.

Any advise, opinion's, links and product names/part numbers, will be appreciated.

Thanks,

[brettco]

I would check out Cobra Restorers set- you would have to make adjustments to get them to fit but they are a good starting point and not $3000.00. Do you still race sprinters? I race 360s at K-ville. I have a Hi-tech cobra and the pipes were the hardest part to find and get to my door without damage! Good luck Brett

[treblig]

Try Buck Shot Fab he has everything you need. Met him at the LCS in Ohio.

http://buckshotracefab.net/sbsh.html

I am also rebuilding my side pipes, welding, cutting and adjusting. The ceramic coating is pretty tough to cut through with a 90 degree die grinder you'll go through a lot of disc's. A file working great.

[undy]

Kevin,

Ensure your existing header primary tube diameter matches your new side pipes tube diameter. Increasing the side pipe tube diameter with the header still being undersized won't net you anything.

Dave

[sparks]

Buckshot seems to be alot cheaper than firefly ? Has anyone had a bad exp. w/either of them? $800 seems to be a big diff. Keith r you doin any custom spf pipes ? Even if the stock headers are kept the sound should be better along w/some hp gains , no?

[mickmate]

There's a good little article a couple of issues back in Kit Car about replacing side pipe mufflers. I put some Stainless Specialties mufflers in my friends SPF recently. The factory ones were quite restrictive on noise and power. They made a huge difference in power with only a little more volume. It's really not a bad job especially if you get a muffler about 1/2" longer than what you have. If you look at it think about it and make up a good fixture to hold both ends in relative alignment with each other you basically just cut the old muffler out and put a new one in. There's a few threads on the SPF and other forums about it here on CC.

[FUNFER2]

Brett- I had no idea that they made pipes, I'll check into it.
Yes but, we did not race last year because of the cost. When crude oil went up, so did racing fuel, tries and everything else related, even zip tie's.
We like Knoxville too, it's the best track and facility in the nation but, were only 2 miles from our home track. What car do you race ?

Buck Shot Fab- I will look at their site.

Dave- I'm checking to see how much larger I can make the primary tubes, because like you said, it wouldn't help any if I can't.

Sparks- you can increase a small amount of torque leaving them the same size but, having a larger system will increase both hp & tq. It's been proven that headers with a collector can increase torque versus say, zoomies. The reason for me making the muffler section larger is just to expel/scavenge more exhaust and make the sound even more throaty.

[FUNFER2]

Dave, you don't have enough photo's of you LS !!!

mickmate- do you know what issue in Kit Car ?
Also, when you have the time, please send me the links on SPF. What size did you use, and any part numbers would be helpful.
How did you attaché the mufflers ? Do you have any pics ?

[jwoodard]

Another thought is to just fabricate your own. It really isn't that difficult and the parts are readily available. As an example, when I owned my Lone Star, I used merge collectors from Hooker, Howe racing mufflers and some end pieces I bought off the internet. I subsequently did the same thing with my Superformance and performance gains on both applications were excellent. Both the Lone Star and SPF side pipes are rather restrictive. If you do a search here there have been several threads on the subject.
On my SPF I gained dyno verified 60 RWHP and 50 RWTQ after going to larger headers and Side pipes. The more c.i.'s you have the bigger the gains by providing better breathing, and FE's really need to breath.
Here's a shot of the pipes I built for my SPF:

The Lone Star's looked very similar except they were ceramic coated silver.

[FUNFER2]

Jim- they look great, very good job. Do you have any build photo's, sizing info ect..... ?

Did you also build them for your Superformance or are they SPF's ?

Who built the headers & what size are they ?

The performance gain you show is amazing.

Kevin

[jwoodard]

Sorry, no build photos, but the picture is of the pipes I built for the my SPF.
The headers were built by a fellow in New Mexico named Darrell Ratchner. They are 2" primaries vs. 1 7/8" from SPF. The side pipe primaries are 2" and the Hooker Headers 4 into 1 merge collector (2" in, 3 1/2" out), Howe Racing muffler ( 4" O.D. necked down to 3 1/2" on each end, part # H3002 if I remember correctly), and finally a 3 1/2" down turn on the end. The Howe muffler is a straight thru type with a 1/4" louvered baffle and some packing between the inner core and the outside shell. They sound of these is considerably different than the stock pipes, but not annoyingly so.
Here's a shot of a similar set on Fred Bucy's Lone Star:
[IMG]http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...idepipes_2.JPG[/IMG]
I had a local fabricator mandrel bend my primary tubes to my specs, 4" and 6" radius if I remember correctly, it might have been 3" and 5", just measure your current pipes and you'll know. The merge collector came from Jegs or Summit and the muffler from Howe (http://www.howeracing.com/Exhaust/In...lers-Duals.htm), and the end piece somewhere on the internet, I just don't remember.
Hope this helps.

[FUNFER2]

Thank you Jim. You have mail.

[mickmate]

Hey Kevin there's plenty of info on it here Side Pipes
I'm not sure what issue of Kit Car maybe try 3 issues back, I have a ridiculously out of control magazine collection! I do have pictures of what I did to Johns sidepipes PM me an e-mail address as I haven't dinked around resizing or posting them. If anyone else needs them we may have to do that. The mufflers were simply cut out, the ends of the pipes were trued up to length and a new muffler welded in. I TIG welded Johns as they were SS mufflers to steel pipes. The torque and power gains Jim's talking are even more amazing when you feel them against your back! I would also consider building them from parts too for a short budget and personal satisfaction. Tacking them all together right on the car is the best way to ensure fit. Just make sure you really skip around with opposing welds when final welding so it doesn't go nuts. Speedway and Summit are good suppliers of elbows and returns for tubing. Some e-bay outfits are pretty good too. Burns Stainless has all the exhaust components you need in stainless of course but you might want a set of the neat little collector tabs that are even stepped for the material thickness. I have scratch built a few systems recently and they take a little time to get looking nice but that's why we work on our own stuff right! I have a set of stainless and mild steel exhaust flanges cut and ready for 2" primaries for the FE, I can also supply any custom cut parts for you, if you need anything you can't find let me know.

[Jon Miller]

Hi Kevin,
I built my own stainless sidepipes with parts from Stainless Specialties, and Summit. At the time, the mufflers were cheaper ($100 each polished) going through Summit even though they were made by SS. The total cost was about $650 in parts plus $100 to have 3/8" flanges cut by water jet. I used a hole saw for the mild steel flanges on the headers which I also made, but that was not a very good option for the stainless! I went with mild steel for the headers due to ease of cutting, and cost when I messed up. The headers ran about $200 in parts and are equal length +/- 1". I welded everything with my MIG, and did much finish work with a flap wheel on my angle grinder. MIG plus Grinder equals TIG .

I have some pics in my gallery that may help.


Good Luck!
Jon

[treblig]

Here is another supplier for parts.

http://www.spdexhaust.com/downloadsB.html

[FUNFER2]

nickmate- my mags are in the bathroom for serious, reading. Can't find that issue ?

I've just heard from someone that has SS pipes and does not like them. They crack easy and the polish does not stand up and it's also hard, to polish and yellows. He said his SPF mechanic that installed his engine said not,...to go with them. Use steel and have them Jet-Hot coated. Now, he loves the shine and no color changing or polishing. How do you, and the rest of you SS pipe owners think ?

"Jet-Hot" has a silver coating that is supposed to be shinny, holds up to high temps and cost $305.

I did PM you with my email. Get back to me when you can.

Jon- yours looks great. Do you have any of the problems as I stated above ?

Thanks,

[Jon Miller]

I went with ceramic on the headers ($200 locally) and they looked great for a while. After a couple thousand miles they have lost much of their shine. The sidepipes do get a golden color to them with heat, the same as chrome changes to blue. I did rebuff them after 500 miles when I took the car apart for paint, and they polish back to like new without much effort. I have not had any problems with cracking, but if I do I'll just fire the welder up again.

-Jon

[FUNFER2]

Ok, I think I have the side pipe's settled.
Now, how about the different brands of collectors and styles

Merge (venturi) Collectors-

This is from Car Craft.

" Merge collectors are typically built on a custom, one-off basis by specialists, making them very expensive (in the neighborhood of $1,000 or more a pair). However, at the recent SEMA show, we ran across Dynatech Headers, a small, race-oriented header builder that makes the closest thing to a mass-produced merge collector on the market. Dynatech's merge collectors, available in high-temp coated mild steel or stainless steel, are still not cheap at around $600 for a pair, but at this price level, we felt it was worth a test to see what this technology is all about".

A brief note of testing-

"To keep the test simple, we ran both collector styles without mufflers to eliminate that variable, and we made no tuning changes beyond verifying that timing and carb jetting were optimized for each setup.

The results of our test were impressive. With the standard collectors, power peaked at 517 hp at 6,300 rpm and 475 lb-ft of torque at 5,000 rpm. With no other changes than slipping on the merge collectors, power increased to 528 hp at 6,300 rpm and 482 lb-ft at 5,000, a gain of 11 hp and 7 lb-ft of torque at the peaks, and more testing would likely improve on this. Finding more than 10 hp with a simple bolt-on in an engine already making nearly 1.5 hp per cubic inch is truly remarkable in our book".

Great results but, $600.

There has to be a cheaper way.

[FUNFER2]

Here's a different opinion-

"Everyone tested the merge collectors for the Engines Masters contest, THey dont work, it is a big waste of money. You might find 3 or 5 HP somewhere in the power curve, but no where near what they cost per HP/ dollar.Some times it was even worse than regular collectors.

The 4-2 one design has some good merrits though."

JOE SHERRMAN RACING ENGINES

Versus-


"Thanks for your experience, Joe!

Hooker used to offer a 4-2-1 collector some time back. I purchased a set and installed them on my Hooker Super Comps. Flowmaster had them as well, but the Hookers were a much smoother design.

A person has to be careful with the 4-2-1 collectors. The Ford firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 and you don't want successive firings going into the same merge. For example, you don't want 1-3 going into the same merge, as it can cause a 'traffic jam'. You want to pair the impulses as far apart as possible. On the passenger bank, maybe 1-2 paired and 3-4 paired.

Of course 'ideal' pairings aren't always possible with 4-2-1 collectors, but you can usually rotate the collector to make the pairings as ideal as possible. Mine are turned two different ways on my car.

I like the Hookers, but don't think they are made anymore. Nice, smooth transitions".

Hum,.....

[jwoodard]

Kevin,

Summit has the Hooker Headers 4 into 1 merge collectors for $175.95/pair.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
These are the collectors I and several others here in Texas used in our side pipe builds.