Big Block vs Small Block, a Cobra quandary

[mrmustang]

Big Block vs Small Block, a Cobra quandary:

Hypothetically speaking that is, if you had your choice of the following two Cobras which would you choose and why?

Cobra #1:

351W/375hp, T5, 4 into 4's, street performer seats, under dash heater, 3 link rear end,coil overs, 4 wheel disk brakes.







Cobra #2:

427 sideoiler with twin 4 barrel carbs, toploader 4spd, wipers, no heat, convertible top and side windows, IRS rear suspension, coil overs 4 wheel disk brakes.

[marcalan]

Now that's a good question. I am partial to the small block cars. So that would be my first inclination.

However, both cars shown seem to be of the big block replica variety. Therefore, if cost was not factored in (making the assumption that the big block is going to cost more at first and to use) and I was going for what replicated the body style, I would go with the big block, my guess is that resale value would also be higher with the big block.

[Cashburn]

This is not a small vs. big block question...

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

This is not a small vs. big block question...

Yes, actually it is, I was not mentioning brands, because I do not want that type of bias to cloud this thread.


Bill S.

[convincor]

BB with IRS. The 4 spd doesn't bother me. I still get 14-15 mpg on long cruises. Runs 2800-2900 @ 65mph and there's a ton of torque on tap in that range. Heater, I rarely turn on.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Yes, actually it is, I was not mentioning brands, because I do not want that type of bias to cloud this thread.


Bill S.

Again, if the first car or the second car was repeated with the only difference being the actual engine then it is a small vs. big question. The 2 cars are so different in quality, components, suspension, fit/finish, etc. that you cannot draw the comparison here and ask big vs. small.

I think you are asking which car you would buy, or which car you should buy to resell?

You'll never get the bias out of a "Cobra" owner, once they make their decision it is ultimately the "right" decision from that day until they sell it and either buy the same brand again or buy a different brand which then becomes the "right one".

[cscobra]

Easy choice: FE/toploader/IRS: more authentic in appearance and feel. 427 body style begs for this package.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

You'll never get the bias out of a "Cobra" owner, once they make their decision it is ultimately the "right" decision from that day until they sell it and either buy the same brand again or buy a different brand which then becomes the "right one".

Absolutely right again. It is the Cobra owner's psychological defense mechanism that helps to justify prior decisons that they now regret, but are reluctant to spend the money to remedy. Their vociferous defense of inferior components makes the pain less acute....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cscobra

Easy choice: FE/toploader/IRS: more authentic in appearance and feel. 427 body style begs for this package.

+1

While the intended use was not specified, I'm would always opt for a BB in a BB body.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Absolutely right again. It is the Cobra owner's psychological defense mechanism that helps to justify prior decisons that they now regret, but are reluctant to spend the money to remedy. Their vociferous defense of inferior components makes the pain less acute....

Well put!

"Easy choice: FE/toploader/IRS" +2

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Again, if the first car or the second car was repeated with the only difference being the actual engine then it is a small vs. big question. The 2 cars are so different in quality, components, suspension, fit/finish, etc. that you cannot draw the comparison here and ask big vs. small.

I think you are asking which car you would buy, or which car you should buy to resell?

You'll never get the bias out of a "Cobra" owner, once they make their decision it is ultimately the "right" decision from that day until they sell it and either buy the same brand again or buy a different brand which then becomes the "right one".

Resale did not come in to play until you mentioned it and got me thinking. These days I usually just buy to drive, then sell when I am bored, but if the prices on both can be negotiated, maybe reselling one to recoup some of the cost on the other is not a bad way to go. Appreciate the idea.

Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Absolutely right again. It is the Cobra owner's psychological defense mechanism that helps to justify prior decisons that they now regret, but are reluctant to spend the money to remedy. Their vociferous defense of inferior components makes the pain less acute....

I think you're lumping every Cobra owner into one "absolute" category called "biased" and we're all different. In my mind, I'm able to narrow Bill's decision to just a SB versus BB question and put the kit quality aside.

I believe I'm able to recognize the inferior components in my car and may choose to either live with them or remedy/fix them down the road. I've already chose to upgrade several things with my car. No manufacturer makes a perfect car.

[scales]

#2. Visual Impact.

[KevinM]

Bill,

I'll take a somewhat rambling shot at this, giving my reasoning as I go.

If authenticity is important, then obviously a 427 or 428 FE is the choice.

With that out of the way, we can look at what is the best engine for different uses. My interest has always been street driving, so I will let someone else talk about track use.

Shelby used the engines he did because they were what he could get. He originally wanted the smallblock Chevy and only went to Ford after Chevy turned him down because they didn't want another car to compete with the Corvette.

If Shelby had been able to get the engine he wanted, the 327 Chevy, there never would have been a big block car. The Chevy could be stroked to 377 CI and made 485 HP in that form (As used in the Grand Sport Corvettes). It would have been all he would ever have needed without the weight, heat, etc of a big-block. (I think it is very instructive that Duntov chose the smallblock for the Grand Sports and not the big-block Chevy. He understood the problems with excess engine weight).

The Grand Sports pushed Shelby into needing more power, and the only choice he had with Ford engines was the 289 or FE. The FE Shelby originally planned to use was the all aluminum NASCAR 390. In fact, that's what Ken Miles used in the first car at Nassau race week. For a car intended to be a race car, it was a pretty good engine, and that's the engine the coil spring chassis car was designed around. Unfortunately, when they actually got ready to build the car, Ford told them they would get the iron 427 instead of the aluminum 390. So Shelby got stuck with an engine he never intended to use.

If we look at what Shelby did for his own car a couple of years later, we see that when he had his personal 289 Cobra re-powered in the early 1970's, he chose a Boss 351 for it.

I think that if the 351 had been available in 1965 Shelby would never have used the FE. Especially for a street driven car.

I think the 351 Windsor with modern aluminum heads would be a much better choice than the FE if you actually want the best possible combination for real world driving.

So, to sum up, the FE if you want to duplicate an original. The 351 if you want the best car for street use and the engine Shelby would probably have chosen if it had been available.

Kevin

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I think you're lumping every Cobra owner into one "absolute" category called "biased" and we're all different...I believe I'm able to recognize the inferior components in my car and may choose to either live with them or remedy/fix them down the road.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone with inferior components vociferously defends them, but some on this board clearly do (live axles are a common example). So you have to ask yourself "Why?" Of course the answer lies in the nuances of human behavior -- and it adds a certain amount of "spice" to this forum. But you gotta spot it when you see it, and unfortunately, that's just out of reach for most of the newbies.

[Danr55]

Who am I to disagree with the FE scenario. The car was designed to house a BIG BLOCK FE motor. Where is the decision. If you don't buy it, please let me know where the green car is and what make it is. I think I am interested.

[olddog]

I would go with the green car.

IRS, disc brakes, and side oiler are all big +++ in my mind. Of course this assumes everything else is relatively equal and/or the budget does not matter at all. It also does not take into consideration the intended use.

Bottom line you know far more about these cars than I do. I suspect the left side of your brain wants one car, the right side wants the other, and you want us to help you sort out which side is correct. You do know that in the end there is no absolute correct answer, right?

[cobred]

With the info you gave I would pick the green car. I dont like the color of the 1st car, the seats, the shape of the rear fenders or the small block in a 427 style car. Of course its what you like, not any of us. Is that an early E.R.A.?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by cobred

Is that an early E.R.A.?

It is



Bill S.

[cobred]

Go green. If you buy it though, I dont think you will like the 427 with all those carbs to fool with. So to help you out i'd be willing to swap for my great running 428. Let me know.