starting problem when hot

[paulbarrick]

I have a Backdraft 427R, will not turn over when hot, maybe quarter turn, have put on new battery, starter, checked ground. Once the car cools for an hour or so, it will then start. Also tried heat shield for starter without success. Suggestions?

[Don]

I installed the starter from RobbMc Performance on my AMX :

" RobbMc Performance is the result of the combined efforts of two engineers: Robb, a mechanical engineer, and Craig, an electrical engineer. Both worked for more than a decade at Mallory Ignition designing ignition and fuel system products. Robb also worked for Erson cams for over a decade and for Tilton Engineering (mini-starters, clutches etc) for more than six years. Before working at Mallory Ignition, Craig worked for a major aerospace company."

Send them an e-mail with your question, they had previously published an article on starting problems


http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...c_starter.html

[marcalan]

could the intitial timing to be to far retarded?

[race-it]

I had the exact same trouble with mine. I changed my ignition switch, and went to a more powerful starter. I ran extra ground straps from starter to frame and motor to frame. I was using a mini starter and burned four starters up in one year.

Good Luck.
Race it

[joe g]

Timing is off!!! Had same problem, retard it a bit.
joeg

[Blas]

Assuming the car is not running hot, and headers are not glowing cherry red after a ride...You say it will not turn over...(no cranking)
If all else is in order, maybe a heat-soaked starter?

[paulbarrick]

I have tried the timing route, my Cobra has ceramic coated headers, tried insulation wrap as I stated, car does not run hot...but will not turn over the big Roush when hot....any more suggestions? I'm on my second Powermaster 9162 starter....thanks

[marcalan]

How about the battery, a weak battery, or one that is not using all cells could also show this type of symptom. I now leave my 67 mustang on a trickle charger because of similar experience.

[Blas]

Well, I guess I would start by inspecting the main ground cables from the battery to the chassis and then the one from the engine (Usually off a starter bolt) to the chassis. Check the battery cable ends too with the clips on them. Have you load tested the battry? What gauge wire are you running for the main grounds and main power? Next time it won't crank, pull out a jumper cable and connect on side to the negative battery post and the other to a good chassis ground...

[CaliSnake]

I had the same problem with my Backdraft last month. After trying everything that you have tried, it still wouldn't start when hot. I took it to the shop to see if they could find the problem. They said that I had a diminishing coil and replaced it. I haven't had a problem since the coil was changed out. I have never heard diminishing coil before...

[Ron61]

I had the same problem with one of my high compression engines and replaced the starter with a gear driven one that the starter shop here made and installed. That was in 1996 and it ism still going great now and no matter how hard I drive it or how hot it gets, it will turn right over and fire up..

Ron

[CobraDan]

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/engine/hotstart.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-01.htm

[undy]

Do a couple electrical checks first:

A healthy electrical system is essential to good cranking, especially with a hot motor. A deficient electrical system can have enough juice to crank a cold motor that's not up to clearance specs, has a tad less compression and "looser" clearances. ...but when things are heated up and more cranking amps are required, it just doesn't quite do the job. I'm not saying this is definitely your problem but the basics need to be checked first.

1. When hot, car off, nothing running, put a volt meter across the terminals
and check battery voltage. It should be 12.0 to 12.5 or so. Next, with car
hot, have someone crank the engine while you check the battery voltage.
It should be around 10.5 to 11 volts. Measured in the same fashion, your
charging volts at idle with nothing running should be 13.2 to 14.5 volts.

2. If the voltage readings above seem normal then you need to make sure
you're getting full battery voltage all the way to the starter. Loose
connections, inadequate wire sizes and defunct starter relays can cause
voltage drops. These voltage drops can cause exactly the problems you're
experiencing. This is the easiest way to check for a cranking voltage drop.
Get about a 6' piece of light gauge stranded wire and strip one end back
an inch or so. Disconnect the negative terminal on the battery. Put the
front of the car in the air, on jack stands. Crawl underneath and loosen the
starter positive terminal stud nut (noting the connection and how tight it
was in the first place). Wrap the stripped end of the 6' piece of stranded
wire around the starter stud and tighten the positive terminal back down.
Feed the stranded wire out from under the car. Drop the car and
reconnect the battery. While cranking the car read voltage from that
stranded wire to the positive side of the battery. You should read less than
1/2 volt. If you read more then you have connection problems, inadequate
wire size or a defective starter.

Note: This type of test should also be conducted on the ground side too,
done in a similar fashion. While you're under the car, ensure the
starter bolts are tight and the same on the engine to frame
grounding strap.

I'm running outta go juice so .....

Dave

[tboneheller]

I had a sticking mechanical advance in my MSD distributor that had the same symtoms as you have.

[FUNFER2]

I had the same problem with my distributer, being locked out. After running, I would stop for gas and it would start slowly or, not at all. Try a timing retard from Summit/Jegs ect. It reduces the timing on start up. It works great on mine. I have a MSD 6-AL so, I bought this one.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Kevin

[Atlantacobra]

Same problem here with my 351W. I replaced my battery with an Optima battery and problem went away. Small, compact, and lots of cranking amps. A bit expensive, but made a big difference.

[IKE]

I've experienced the same problems you describe. Went with an MSD timing control, worked OK. Optima battery OK. Gear reduction starter OK as well. But the best cheap solution was to install a toggle switch to the ingition wire to the distributor, with this you eliminate the plug firing and stalling the piston during startup due to ignition advance. You simply wait until the starter is turning the engine over at a good rpm, flip the switch and it starts.

[Ron61]

A good bucket of ice water over the engine would maybe help. This I say in jest. As I stated before I had a stroker and I now have the Big block and I have gear drive starters on both of them and have never had a problem in the 14 years since I went to those starters. This Big Block wouldn't even try to turn over with the so called high performance starter that was on it after it got hot. Now it runs at right around 120/130 and when I shut it off the heat goes way up, but I can get back in within a minute or so and it will crank right over with no drag at all.

Ron

[double ugly]

I don't think retarding the timing is the answer. I've been haveing a similar problem. Dave's answer is the most complete.
John

[Don]

From RobbMc Performance, Starter Installation etc:

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/news/news_v2i4.html