Aluminum flywheel vs Steel and Clutch ?

[FUNFER2]

I'm having KC build me a Pond alum. 482 cu. engine. (625-650 HP) Now I need to start asking for particulars. I have the TKO 3550.

With those of you that have tried both alum. & steel flywheels, mainly for the street, what are your experiences, what worked better, ect. ?

Second- what is the best brand choice for my application

Which type of disk, McLeod, Centerforce, Hays, Ram ect. ?
Dual Friction, puck type ect. ?

[Ant]

FUNFER2,

I guess it all depends on if you want a quicker revving engine go for a light alloy flywheel or probably a better way to go is flexplate for the starter gear, and use a Tilton or AP steel flywheel which is only as big as the size of your clutch driven plates eg 7.5" in my case as I am using a Tilton cerametallic twin plate 740ft Ibs torque pressure plate. I dont think they use alloy flywheels as much as they did in the 1960's and 1970's with the steel insert for the clutch!!!

The ceramic material has some ability to allow slippage for rally car and road cars. Also we run a QM 19Ibs steel bellhousing which gives some safety.

[Ronbo]

I don't know how far you are in sourcing components, but I had Keith supply the entire driveline from engine to trannie. Considring the cost of the components and shipping from several vendors I saved money and everything is setup, ready to go.

Went with the aluminum flywheel per Kirkham and others recommendation.

You can see pics of the "kit" in my gallery. (Kieth is also a Mass-flo dealer so I bought the injection system through him as well)

[blykins]

I have used an aluminum flywheel on a Cobra before. This was on a 428FE. The differences were it needed a little more clutch when taking off from a dead stop and it seemed to let the engine rev a little more freely. On a light car, (unless money is a worry) I don't see any reason not to use one. It's less weight hanging off the back of the crankshaft.

As for clutches, stay away from puck style discs for the street. Use a good dual friction setup from McLeod or RAM. Stay away from Centerforce as a lot of guys have trouble with the weights.

I carry all of the above, and when I spec FE clutches for Cobras, I usually go with an 11" dual friction clutch disc. Depending on the horsepower and application, I'll either go with a diaphragm plate with an organic/ceramic disc, or a Long style plate with an organic/ceramic or ceramic/Kevlar disc.

You want to put the power to the ground without slippage, but you don't want something that will aggravate you to death on the street. However, one thing that guys don't understand is that you rarely can have your cake and eat it too. You can't have a clutch that will hold 650hp and actuate like a Honda. You can get into twin disc setups, but they're about twice the price of a single disc setup.

I have a McLeod clutch package that I use for 600-650hp Cobras with FE's. If you're interested, shoot me an email or PM.

[FUNFER2]

Ronbo- how much was the mass-flo, complete ?
I did a fast search and only found the system at their site and it was apx. $4,000.

[blykins]

Kevin,

What is your trans again? Is it a newer TKO 500/600 or is it a 3550?

[FUNFER2]

It's the TKO 3550 I believe.

[undy]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

It's the TKO 3550 I believe.

It's toast, within the first couple weeks of drive time, w/ 600+ lbft..

TKO600, 0.82 overdrive.. No question about it, the only way to go.

OBTW.. Those 28 spline currie axles of yours are toast too and you'll have to change the diff to 31 spline. Kev, puttin' a big motor in it (as you're finding out) is the tip-o-the-iceburg. Once you put that 482 in it the standard Lone Star drivetrain fare behind the engine is too frigile and must be replaced. Dig deeper, there's another 4 or 5 grand you'll have to come up with. The engine's about 60% or your costs to get there. Trust me, I know..

You're constantly trying to reinvent the wheel. Listen to Keith. He'll guide you through the whole process. Ram aluminum flywheel with a "Long Syle" Ram clutch, rated at 2600 lbs. He'll tell you what you need, for the whole car. LISTEN TO HIM!!!

Sorry to many trips to the Keurig machine this AM...

All truth, no bullsheet

Dave

[FUNFER2]

Hey bud, that's all part of the plan. Any part that is too weak, is coming out. The axles may be ok with such a light car and I will not be using slicks. As we all know, a hard launch with sticky tires is very hard on all the drive train.

"You're constantly trying to reinvent the wheel". Not really, I just like researching everything, ask my wife. lol
And, there's no harm with asking others which products work the best. That's what is so great about CC, everybody will lend help and answer even the stupidest questions to high teck.

From the start, I've trusted Keith and always will.

Do you have a aluminum flywheel, if so, how do you like it ?
I don't quite understand some problems with starting from a traffic light with a alum. flywheel ?

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

The axles may be ok with such a light car and I will not be using slicks. As we all know, a hard launch with sticky tires is very hard on all the drive train.

From the start, I've trusted Keith and always will.

Do you have a aluminum flywheel, if so, how do you like it ?
I don't quite understand some problems with starting from a traffic light with a alum. flywheel ?

The GY Billboards that you are getting are going to hook up much better than your current tires.

Yes, Keith knows his stuff--follow his guidance and you should be in good shape.

Incidentally, I have a McLeod Street Twin clutch and aluminum flywheel and have been very pleased.

[undy]

Yep, followed Keith's advice then went with Ram's aluminum flywheel and clutch setup as I'd mentioned. Never a hint of slip, the grab is very predictable and the pedal pressure doesn't give me a hernia. Zero problems with the combo.

Flywheel:
With heavy cars a good deal of inertia is required to get it moving (out of the hole). A heavy cast iron flywheel aids in this. Our light cars doesn't need that so an aluminum flywheel helps restore some of the "snap" (quick rev) that our stroked FEs are deficient in.

As Stentor hinted at, your Billboards (Goodyear RACE tires) are going to aid in the axle twist process. Ignoring it saying that my car is light won't stop it from happening. Did I mention that my car's never been raced, never ran slicks and the axle twist came from 100% street use?? LS' 28 spline Currie Ford 9" axles aren't even considered a performance axle. Currie is a main stream crate rearend mfr and typically isn't considered "race quality" by the pros.

The TR3550 is rated at 350 lbft. almost half of what you'll be putting out. The Billboards will aid in it's demise too. I did Keith's 482 w/ the lakewood and TKO 600 at the same time. I should have done the axles and diff at that time too. You'll be tearing things apart twice or three times if you don't. I'll probably be reading your "What axle?, what diff?, what tranny? threads in several months anyway. I'll look forward to an "I told you so!" or two..

Dave

[Bobcat]

Second what Undy said on the flywheel . My 427 Galaxie has a big heavy cast iron Ford flywheel .... but it also weighs 4100 lbs and has a 4 speed . An aluminum flywheel would make the car almost undriveable on the street . My Cobra has the aluminum flywheel .... light cars can use a light flywheel as they get underway easier .... heavy car needs the flywheel inertia to help get the car moving , not stall the engine or have to slip the clutch a lot .

[FUNFER2]

Sorry but, mine are the 31 spline. Years ago, (Gees, has it really been 9 years) I got the numbers off the tag and called Currie and what the said was this, the pumpkin is a locker with 31 splined axles. The weak point is the tranny.

I haven't started researching yet, who has the cheapest price ?

Without changing my 331 gears, I've heard someone here say you can order what gears you want in the TKO 600 ?

What are yours and how do you like them. I think I herd a .82 overdrive, what about 1st ?

[FUNFER2]

Sorry but, mine are the 31 spline. Years ago, (Gees, has it really been 9 years) I got the numbers off the tag and called Currie, they said it's a locker with 31 splined axles. The weak point is the tranny.

I haven't started researching yet, who has the cheapest price ?

Without changing my 331 gears, I've heard someone here say you can order what gears you want in the TKO 600 ?

What are yours and how do you like them. I think I herd a .82 overdrive, what about 1st ?

With my TKO 3550 & 331 gears, at 60 mph I'm at 2,000 rpm. Which is great.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I haven't started researching yet, who has the cheapest price ?

Without changing my 331 gears, I've heard someone here say you can order what gears you want in the TKO 600 ?

Me....

I sell the trannies too.

You can't order custom gears with the 600 other than the overdrive. .64 or .82. If you like the rpm range now, I'd just stay with what you have. The bigger engine will have a lot more torque, which will help out with low rpm street manners.

[FUNFER2]

Can you post or email me the gear ratio between the two ?
I'll send you a PM or mail.

[undy]

With your rear gears and and the small mechanical roller your new 482 won't like 5th gear (0.64) at any reasonable cruise speed. See what kind a deal you can get from Brent on a TKO600 with a 0.82 overdrive. Summit sells them for $2195, for a reference point.

The TKO 600 has a 2.87 first, compared to your TR3550's 3.27. You will appreciate that with more cubes (482) and the 3.31s. First gear will be much more usable. BTW, don't go 10 spline input (weaker shaft) go 26 spline. You'll just need to specify 26 spline when you order your clutch disc.

You're one of the few lucky ones that got a 31 spline Currie crate rear, most were 28 spline. As you said, you'll be fine with that.

[FUNFER2]

What third member gearing do you have ?

What are your rpm's @ 60 mph ?

It seams that a lot of guys with the Tremec 600, have a lot steeper gears than my 331's. Can't recall the number ? 382, high 3,.......something. lol

I'll have to search.

[blykins]

Kevin, email #2 is headed your way.

[undy]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

What third member gearing do you have ?

What are your rpm's @ 60 mph ?

It seams that a lot of guys with the Tremec 600, have a lot steeper gears than my 331's. Can't recall the number ? 382, high 3,.......something. lol

I'll have to search.

The 3.31s are fine. If anything I'd go taller. I'm running 3.25s now, down from my old 3.70s. With a 0.82 overdrive the 3.00s would be great for the street too. There's plenty of speed/RPM calculators available online. Your tire height is a critical part of the calculation and needs to be considered also when selecting gearing. Talk to Keith. Ask him what the minimum cruise RPM will be with your 482 combo too. Give me your anticipated tire height and I'll run a couple speed/rpm scenarios for you.

Dave

Dave