What is the best FORD engine per dollar

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by DR 385

Ahh! here again "FE"-TARDISM rears it's full of itself, swollen, ugly head.

Um, .........................Did it have a little purple helmet?











I know, I know, that was off sides wasn't it?

Steve

[jtart2]

Although he is insulting, I think Dr 385 is funny. I have a 385 series engine as well and I get sick of hearing guys say things like "it doesn't look right in a Cobra", or "I don't give it a second look", or "FE's are nicer engines to look at".
Could someone explain to me what makes an engine "pretty"? I wanted the most HP/TQ for the least money, with parts that are easy to find and not too expensive.

We build replicas they way we want. It's a personal decision, and just because I didn't put an FE in mine (which I easily could have) doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it....now a Chevy engine in a Cobra...that's IS wrong

[Argess]

I'm glad I put an FE in mine. 428 covers......is it a real 428, "No, it's an overbored 410". Is my car a real one? No, it is a replica. Am I a real driver? No, but one day I hope to be....

Anyway, my fav Ford enigne is the 289. I'd love a GT40 KIT, and a 289, or maybe a bigger displacement version would be my choice. Fairly cheap to do...er...for a Ford.

I suspect my overbored 410 is the most expensive way to do an FE next to a SOHC. Custom pistons to start. But any FE can have a ton of money spent on it if you want the valve assembly (hardened rocker shafts, rocker stands, pushrods, rockers, springs, retainers, locks, etc.) toughened up.

On the 289, I did a respectable rebuild on one back in the early 90's and the current owner is still running it with no trouble. Total cost back then?......$500 and it included:

hot tanking block and heads and new cam bearings put in
all new bearings
gasket kit
rings
timing gears and chain
oil pump
1 new pushrod
few spray cans of engine paint

I remember dissasembling the lifters and sequentially putting them through about 5 types of different cleaners to get the varnish off just so I wouldn't have to buy new ones. I used a couple of egg cartons to keep them in order.

Did the valves by using lapping compound and spinning the valves with an electric hand drill. Used rubber tubing that slipped over the valve stem with the other end slipped over a piece of rod chucked in the drill. Kept the valves in order by storing them in a peice of 2x6 spruce with holes drilled in it and marked with a black magic marker.

I had measured the bores and found 0.003" taper, not great, but low enough I opted to de-glaze vs overbore.

However on the FE, it was in the thousands, and that's with me doing all the assembly. Mind you, it was done properly, full overbore, rotating assembly balanced, etc. etc.

Point is, you can do any engine cheaply or expensively. Depends on what you want, can afford, etc.

ps: A toast, as per Gumball Rally..."to internal combustion and wind in the face"!!!!

[Excaliber]

Did the valves by using lapping compound and spinning the valves with an electric hand drill.

Eh eh, I've been there.

[mdross1]

After reading a few of these posts I see no difference in some of you.There are the hardcore FE boys as well as the 385 gang.Tell me what the difference is please, someone! When you are talking about replica Cobra's, what in the world is all the head bashing about,my word boys grow up! Both schools need to step back and smell the roses.We are driving REPLICARS!!!!!!!!!!!! Most of us anyway! No need to say what my pride and joy is powered by,since I already know who I might hear from!

[trularin]

WOW, a two bagger.

This is rich.

My fav - 427 SOHC.

[lovehamr]

Personally I’m finding the diatribe kind of refreshing and amusing, no need to ban anyone. I also found no dichotomy with the initial posters question. But as is the case in any on-line forum, different viewpoints, desires and opinions have gotten mixed in and some just need to relax. I’m the one who originally posted the 385 series as an answer to his question because as far as Fords go with his question it can’t be beat. But if you look at my tag line you’ll see that I chose to build a stroker 428 for my Cobra. Why? Because that’s what I wanted for it and I don’t need any justification other than that. Neither should anyone else. Look at that new BDR that Bill posted with the chebbie; I’m sure that for someone that’ll be the cat’s ***, just not for me.

Steve

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

... no need to ban anyone.

Agreed, just ignore the posts that offend you and it wall eventually work itself out. If the moderators banned everyone that offended others, or that was the focal points of an outcry, we'd have a pretty dull forum. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the long time posters would have been kicked off long before they became long time posters (Ernie? ). I might even fall in to that category. Ron61 is an exception -- in 17,000+ posts I've yet to catch him offend anyone.

[RodKnock]

Personally, the whole "proctology" and old English thing is bit childish, but he does give the thread a new flavor. I guess every site needs a Dennis Rodman.

Again, as I mentioned earlier, my feeling is that what you lose in hp/$ with the FE is won in the end by the increased resale $.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Personally, the whole "proctology" and old English thing is bit childish...

Well, everyone can't be expected to orchestrate sophisticated and erudite attacks on the other club members.

[DR 385]

Ok, I'm going try this nicely...

Mr. Rodknock,

I believe, at this point, we ALL understand your position and that ANY "FE" is superior to any other engine family regardless of the alternative engines power, cost or any other determining factor for that matter.

We get it...again

I am curious,

I see you have Kirkham with an all aluminum "FE".
Did you build the car and the motor yourself?

Dr385

[Excaliber]

ANY "FE" is superior

Yeah, that pretty well covers it, nicely said.

[greg schroeder]

How much does an all aluminum FE weigh compared to an iron block Windsor with aluminum heads?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

How much does an all aluminum FE weigh compared to an iron block Windsor with aluminum heads?

FWIW, my iron block FE is within 50 lbs. of a stock Ford small block. That's from light internals, aluminum flywheel, manifold, water pump, etc. I believe an aluminum block shaves about a hundred pounds more.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DR 385

Ok, I'm going try this nicely...

Mr. Rodknock,

I believe, at this point, we ALL understand your position and that ANY "FE" is superior to any other engine family regardless of the alternative engines power, cost or any other determining factor for that matter.

We get it...again

I am curious,

I see you have Kirkham with an all aluminum "FE".
Did you build the car and the motor yourself?

Dr385

Hey, look Doc, I understand your role here is to antagonize people of this Forum. If that makes you happy and your world spin clockwise, then that's great for you. However, my feeling is that there are some people who get behind a keyboard and screen and it makes them feel that they can leap tall buildings, run faster than a train and see through walls.

Of course I never said ANY FE is superior to any other engine family, but if that's your comprehension of what I said then what else can I say to you. Arguing with you is ineffective and a waste of time.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FWIW, my iron block FE is within 50 lbs. of a stock Ford small block. That's from light internals, aluminum flywheel, manifold, water pump, etc. I believe an aluminum block shaves about a hundred pounds more.

FWIW, since it doesn't answer Greg's question, but a Pond block shaves about 125 lbs from a typical FE iron block and a Shelby block shaves about 100 lbs.

[patrickt]

So I guess the answer is that an all aluminum FE should come out a good 50 to 100 lbs lighter than the SB with aluminum heads. There's a lot of give and take on that -- old style starters seem to weigh a hundred pounds more than the new ones do.

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FWIW, my iron block FE is within 50 lbs. of a stock Ford small block. That's from light internals, aluminum flywheel, manifold, water pump, etc. I believe an aluminum block shaves about a hundred pounds more.

So you're saying the lighter aluminum block, shaved FE might be around 50 lbs lighter than a heavier Windsor without weight saving components?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

So you're saying the lighter aluminum block, shaved FE might be around 50 lbs lighter than a heavier Windsor without weight saving components?

Yes, I think that sounds reasonable.

[DR 385]

(Wow, 4841 views, for a dead post, hmmm, maybe some people are enjoying this.. Ok sit back, he it comes...)

The Dr is in....

And there it is....

Excalibur,

Thank you for validating my opening comments, A true "FE"TARD is incapable of restraining the Tourette component of his condition:
"FE'S ARE THE BEST!" SEE, SEE! HE EVEN SAID IT HIMSELF!! HA..HA,HAHA!"

It's possible the excessive sunshine is magnifying the symptoms of your condition. You might want to try a relocating to a climate that has less, possibly Seattle. A side benefit (for the rest of us) is that city's high suicide rate. Make some friends, sip some decaf, and talk about how much better it will be for you on the other side...

Mr. Schroeder,

I do applaud your attempt to elicit factual data from the afflicted.
I too will be interested in the response.
For reference sake, I went to Keith Crafts website to find actual weight data.

Initially I laughed when I saw that they have a section for big blocks and a separate section for FE's (lol, Im not making that up)

http://www.keithcraft.com/ourengines2.html

As our ultimate performance sage, Excalibur has stated,(yes Ex im being sarcastic and condescending) more than "500 hp is a waste" I looked to stay near that number for comparison.

He lists a 390FE making 525HP/550FTLBS for $11899.00

He also has an all Alum (Shelby block) 482 that makes 580hp and 600ft/lbs. at $18999.00!!!

He has a Windsor based 408/410 Street/Performance engine that he lists for $9575.00

Then there is the station wagon, truck, school bus, limo" engine
Unfortunately, Actual big blocks (385 series) don’t go that low in hp in Mr. Craft's world. So I used the least powerful version he lists.
514 Street Crate makes 700hp and 650ft/lbs that goes for
$10599.00

So let's do the math together... Go slow for the "FE"tards, they get lost easily.

IRON 390 FE= $22.66 per hp
Alum 482 FE= $32.76 per hp
IRON 408 W = $17.41 per hp
IRON 514 385= $15.14 per hp

Hmmmm, there are those irritating facts again

"You want me on that wall, You need me on that wall"