kit car ratings

[twin turbo]

That chart is funny, I'll leave it at that.
Jackmi, if you have the cash there are some incredible deals out there for a used car. Make sure and sit/ride in as many cars as you can to get an idea of what feels good to you. Just based on your last comments, an ERA with a big block would likely be a good choice. Cheers.

[RACERAL]

Patrick, Patrick, my dear sir.. go back and read your post leading up to what I hath said. If thats your high road, I'd hate to see your low road.
I can show you a ERA right now that I wouldn't give you 20 k for and I bet he has 100k invested in it.. but why?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RACERAL

Patrick, Patrick, my dear sir.. If thats your high road, I'd hate to see your low road.

The high road was yesterday. Today, the two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less traveled by. Clearly, that has made all the difference.

[767Jockey]

I'm always equally puzzled and amused by guys who either fiercely proclaim to all asking for advice that their make car is the "best", or who get their panties in a wad when someone suggests that they may not like the make car that they own. I guess maybe I have a somewhat limited perspective on this since my car is a Contemporary and they're not made anymore, so unless someone was to buy one used, no one is running out and getting one anyway. Regardless, I like my Contemporary, I really do like it. I'm the type that likes an original look, round tube frame, correct body, IRS, etc. The Contemporary isn't perfect, but it's a really good looking car, very accurate in the body and frame shape. It comes up way short on originality as far as suspension goes, but all in all it's a very nice car as far as I'm concerned. However, my priorities in what makes a car nice may be way different from someone elses. Does that mean that another car that I personally would not care to own is bad, or garbage? No! If Contemporary was the perfect car for everyone, we'd all own one and they'd still be in business! The fact is, as my father used to so eloquently say, there's an ass for every seat. There are some Cobras out there that I have zero interest in owning. None. I'd rather have a 'vette or something before I owned one of these cars. Yet there are thousands of happy owners of these cars driving them proudly every day. I guess my point is, there is no right or wrong here, guys. These cars are meant for us and others to enjoy. Lighten up, relax, go drive you car more and drive your keyboard less. Don't take this all so personally. Just enjoy the cars, get out in the weather, drive them, and try to respect and appreciate them all. These cars are just a part of life, they aren't life itself. Lighten up and enjoy.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

These cars are just a part of life, they aren't life itself.

You mean my Cobra doesn't love me back?!?

[Igofastr]

Having been at this for a few years now, I have to laugh every time this age-old question is asked. And "here we go again" imediately comes to mind.

That said, the table presented by Dinobyte is a pretty/really good start. I would qualify everything with "how much do you want to spend...both in $$ and in sweat equity." The next questions are...how important is originality to you, and what do you want to do with it? Throw enough cash or effort at any project, and you can get pretty good results.

While I have a Kirkham, and think it's a fantastic car, my second choice would have been a FF5. Might seem odd, but for me it came down to perceived value and my intended use. I may yet add a FF5 Spec Racer (DO NOT LET MY WIFE EVER HEAR THAT I SAID THIS).

[RICK LAKE]

767JOCKEY Doug you have flow million miles plus, maybe there was one plane of all the ones you flew that saved your ass. Failure in a system and yet that plane got you on the ground safety. I can't speak for others here but that ERA in the garage will not be sold. I have all my toys but 1. Your car will be as close to perfect as you can get it. You have more time with your mistress in the garage than your wife in the house. I find it hard to believe that you have not fallen asleep yet under the car. When you get your motor in it and fire it up for the first time, I beat you will say "IT'S ALIVE". The funny thing will be getting that silly grin off your face. Mechanical things have soul and they are alive, I have a CJ5 jeep in the back yard to prove that it saved my live. I only have a steering wheel and dash panel from it. I should have been killed. 10+ years of racing, spin outs and have not hit the wall. Been lucky or blessed, not sure. Cobras live and breathe. BE nice to your other mistress. Rick L.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You mean my Cobra doesn't love me back?!?

Only when you spend LOT'S of money on it - that's why so many of us call our cars "she".....

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

767JOCKEY Doug you have flow million miles plus, maybe there was one plane of all the ones you flew that saved your ass. Failure in a system and yet that plane got you on the ground safety. I can't speak for others here but that ERA in the garage will not be sold. I have all my toys but 1. Your car will be as close to perfect as you can get it. You have more time with your mistress in the garage than your wife in the house. I find it hard to believe that you have not fallen asleep yet under the car. When you get your motor in it and fire it up for the first time, I beat you will say "IT'S ALIVE". The funny thing will be getting that silly grin off your face. Mechanical things have soul and they are alive, I have a CJ5 jeep in the back yard to prove that it saved my live. I only have a steering wheel and dash panel from it. I should have been killed. 10+ years of racing, spin outs and have not hit the wall. Been lucky or blessed, not sure. Cobras live and breathe. BE nice to your other mistress. Rick L.

I agree with everything you say, Rick - I am VERY fond of this car and very attached to it, and enjoy it tremendously. However, if someone were to walk up to me and say "I like Factory Fives better than Contemporary" I'm sure not going to get all stressed out about it, in fact I couldn't care less. Obviously I don't agree with that statement,, or I would own a FFR. The fact is it's just not that important. I like Contemporary, and I own one. You like ERA, and you own one. Some of these guys like FFR, and they own them. No one is right, and no one is wrong. Different strokes for different folks, that's all. The "my car is best, my car is better than yours" type of stuff gets very old to me very quickly.

[RACERAL]

I must admit I do get my panties in a wad when I start reading the same things about FFR that I read 10 years ago about them...
Maybe I shouldn't be so defensive... But the way FFRs are built these days compaired to 10 years ago in night and day difference, but some folks keep on thinking "all donor" cars... Hardly any of them are donor these days.
But I try as hard as I can to explain to folks when I go to car shows and I have my 30k car on display beside a 70k SPF,ERA, what the difference is... and I try like hell to point out the difference (IRS vs. striaght axle, my mostly stock motor vs. a 20k motor.) and most of the time they just shrug their shoulders and walk off...Oh, don't get me started on pin drive "real wheels" vs. 4 or 5 lug wheels.
I have never read any threads about 4,5 lugs wheels falling off.

This thread will not be the last discussing the merits or lack there of, of the FFR.... Would I like to have a Kirkham... Damn right!!!!!! ERA TOO!!!!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RACERAL

I must admit I do get my panties in a wad ...
Maybe I shouldn't be so defensive...

Or just try weaving classic poetry in to your posts. It'll make you feel better.

[twin turbo]

Igofastr, you couldn't possibly want a FFR spec racer, that chart says they score last place for track quality, so they must be the slowest of all manufacturers on a track, LOL.

[ENTDOC]

like I said the top 6 or 7 cobras being built now are all very good as far as I am concerned. I have my personal list of what is important to me and which I like the best, but all seem to be very well engineered cars and each has its merits and faults. FFR guys have no reason to get upset about anything, no more than non FFR guys should when they are visiting the FFCobra forum and get slammed about so called weak frames of other makes.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

FFR guys have no reason to get upset about anything...

Other than the fact that they clearly have difficulty independently managing their mental stance on the subject, which feeds the feelings of inadequacy and, consequently, they seek solace in the FFR 12 step program that eventually ends in the purchase of something a little farther up your list.

[Dinobyte]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Dynobyte Where did that slanted chart of cobras come from?? I find that getting parts from ERA has Never been a problem. I am sure if a called the Smith brothers or any of the guys at FFR that I could have parts either next day or in 2 days. How can CS have a higher number than SPF when they are building CS cars? Track quality, Where this BS come from? Who was driving, Miss Daisy. Where the same tires on all these cars??? Fit and finish, every cobra there has some that are redone to be perfect, it depended on how much the owner wanted to go with. Someone should be questioned on there comparision of those cobras. Motors, trans, and rearend gears ALL EFFECT the way a cobra drives and handles. A car setup for street is going to drive great on the street and handle nice. A car setup for the track will handle great on the track. These are totally 2 different SETUPS for a cobra. You have cars here with solid axle rearends, Jags IRS rearends, and Ford IRS rearends. Did everybody have the same brake package?? Steering rack?? There are only a few ERA's with P/S. I own one for a reason of track racing. There is not a car on the chart that can't be assemblied in 100 hours if you have all the parts in the garage. The Kirkham would be the ONLY one that with an Aluminum body would have me taking alot more time to assembly for fear of denting the body. Who ever did this test is bais to one company. This is why this kind of carp should never be done, You can't compare them like this. Rick Lake Ps I don't know about the other companies policies for buying a car but, ERA has a waiting period of 6 months before you can even sign the papers to start doing a car for you. How many businesses have this kind of policy?? I had my roller in 3 months after I got the number of the car chassic. Rick

Do you have a better idea on how you would organize the chart? I am sure everyone would all like to hear it. I can even send you the excel spread sheet and you can customize and repost.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by CowtownCobra

I think anytime this topic comes up the thread should automatically self destruct

Praise be to Allah.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Russ ****ey

Amen - always seems to get everybody's gravy boiling. Didn't the discussion come up on here once about creating a really good un-biased FAQ response for this question?

Oh yeah, and moderators, can I get my last name uncensored in my signature? I am sorry if it offends folks, but I'm getting tired of people calling me Russ "Astersikey"

No...we have standards.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

That is unless FFR comes out with an FIA ca....

Hang in there, it's real and I've touched it.

[TButtrick]

I own two crappy FFRs and love em both.

[Xybram]

Originally Posted by Dinobyte

I need more detail to finish...but you get the idea.

I don't know where you get your ratings from. I am guessing it is purely subjective. It is a nice spread sheet though.
But there is some information that you have that is just plain wrong.
FFR is NOT available as a roller.

The price you have for FFR is for a complete kit. What that means is you could build the entire car and add an engine trans and wheels and be done. With ERA you still have considerable expenses

MAJOR COMPONENTS NOT IN THE BASIC KIT:

Engine: Ford 427 or 428 recommended, others possible
Transmission, Ford toploader, Richmond Gear or Tremec 5 speed
Rear suspension unit based on Jaguar XJ sedan, or our custom outboard-braked design
Flaming River steering gear (FR1502-3X3) or equivalent
Upper steering column and steering wheel
GM front rotors and calipers (bolt-on wheels only)
Front coil-over dampers
Wheels and tires
Handbrake handle and cable
Exhaust system (side pipes or undercar)

I think ERA is a fantastic kit. My first ride ever in a cobra was an ERA. But it is substantially more expensive then an FFR. However, if you are trying to build an accurate representation of a cobra the FFR is not the kit for you. There are things you can do to make it closer but it will never get there. ERA and Backdraft are much closer. But if I had the money I would go with Kirkham!

Since FFR has about 7000 kits sold there is a substantial aftermarket for parts that will enhance the kit. The forum, as far as an aid for building a car, is second to none.

So back to the original question. The first question you should ask yourself is do you want to build a car. Then what is your budget? You have to add in major components like engine, trans, wheels, and PAINT. These few items can easily add 15-20K to the cost of the kit.

HTH
Chris