Superformance or Backdraft and why! - Page 2

jhv48 · #21 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 12:12 PM

How about cockpit fit?

I found the BDR to be roomy but awkward. Seats too low and stiff, and the steering wheel a bit high for my liking.

The SPF seemed to be more natural regarding the seating and steering wheel placement.

Comments?

CBattaglia · #22 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 01:15 PM

I have only come across 3 bdr owners. All 3 had suspension problems. One i test drove and it would bottom out on bumps, the other 2 had alignment problems. I am sure the problems are fixable, but I found it strange. The body is also a bit bubbly in the rear. As mentioned earlier, BDR is relatively new. May still be working out the minor issues. I own a SPF and it has surpassed my expectations. No squeaks, rattles, paint is beyond incredible and most impressive is the way it handles.

greg schroeder · #23 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efnfast

better chassis? gimmie a break.

One of these frames looks like a nicely engineered chassis, the other looks like it's 2 home depot ladders glued together. (i have no idea what the bd frame looks like though)

I'm far from an expert on chassis desing, but the Home Depot ladder unit looks quite a bit like a Tony Kart frame with suspension.

Here's a frame of one that looks a bit like the Home Depot type too, but it has some safety stuff.

I guess if one wanted a real track performer they would just go and buy a Subaru STi or something of the like.

Jim Kellogg · #24 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 06:29 PM

Each replica has it's own "quirks" just as the originals have their unique "quirks".

I have driven and worked on both BDF and SPF cars. Very different cars indeed, and a drive in each (sorted out) car will make your decision much easier to make.

The basic cars (without any options) hit 2 different price points. Standard equipment on the SPF gives you everything you need to drive year-around, but the cost is more.

Is the extra cost of a SPF worth it? I strongly believe so. That's why I own an SPF.

There is also a very big difference in paint quality between the 2 cars. I have not yet seen a BDF with paint quality at the level of the SPF.
If you can, put each car up in the air and take a close look at the welds and construction of the frame. There is a difference.
The SPF interior more closely replicates the original "look" with gauges, instrument placement, and upholstry.

I am not knocking the BDF. It is a decent car for the price, and they have a couple of very customer focused dealerships. Others are not so customer friendly. Don, do you have anything to say?

I am sure that if you can drive the cars side by side, and inspect them top to bottom side by side, you will know which one you want. Then the question may come to what works with the budget on hand.

Am I biased towards SPF? Yup. I own one :-)

Oh, and maybe some day I can tell you a story about the big hearts of my friends on SCOF (the Superformance owners group)....
Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

madmaxx · #25 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 06:57 PM

You may be able to drive a cobra year around within boundries, like light rain, but make no mistake they are not dailey drivers unless you live in arizona or nevada and if you drive them in even light rain they will deteriorate. You have a massive air scoop as the driving rain blows on top of your enigne I would imagine the ignition would crap out. It would be generous to say the top and side windows are splash proof. Tonneau is nice if you do get caught out in the weather. I have never driven one in the rain but have washed mine twice.

I have owned both. The difference between a spf and backdraft is the difference between a F250 and a Ford Ranger. They both get the job done what is just a little stouter.

CWizard · #26 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You may be able to drive a cobra year around within boundries, like light rain, but make no mistake they are not dailey drivers unless you live in arizona or nevada and if you drive them in even light rain they will deteriorate. You have a massive air scoop as the driving rain blows on top of your enigne I would imagine the ignition would crap out. It would be generous to say the top and side windows are splash proof. Tonneau is nice if you do get caught out in the weather. I have never driven one in the rain but have washed mine twice.

SPF as a daily driver? I believe Mr. Kellogg has some experience with that, should he care to comment again.

As for driving in the rain, I have all the experience with that I want. I have driven my SPF in a couple of really heavy rains, once without the top on. Had 2 inches of water in the footwells. While it was no fun, I can confirm that the car is waterproof. There were no ignition or instrument problems.

As others have said, search the archives, drive both and your answer will come clear. I obviously like the SPF. Dealer support has been outstanding, and SCOF is a major asset.
Jerry

mcracing · #27 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 07:27 PM

JHV 48
I will take a minute and tell you why I made the BDR choice over a SPF.

First off I like the overall appearance of both of them but the stance of the BDR won me over. Purely my taste.

Quality: while they both have it they are in different areas. You have to ask yourself if the quality of an SPF is worth the money. For me it was not even a decision.

Talk to owners. I found that there is so much bias on these sites you will not really get to the bottom of what you want to know. If you talk one on one you will get more valuable information.

Options: They both have so many it really doesn’t matter what they offer as much as are they willing to do what you want in the time frame and price you are willing to pay.

My final decision came after not one but two trips to each of the two finalists in my search. I have to tell you that I had the money to buy either one and it really came down to what company treated me with the respect and took the time to answer all my stupid questions. SPF had me in there display booth not once but five different time in two different shows. I had one person actually talk to me and that was just to ask me if I could move aside so he could show the car to someone else. They did not ever make me feel like a company I wanted to spend my hard earned money with.

BDR was not only courteous to me but actually followed up with the things they said they would provide after they returned back to Florida. The next time I saw them they were right next to the SPF trailer again so I had to be sure it wasn’t me. This time I actually asked for help and they gave me the token speech that was for anyone stopping buy but never once did they even ask if I was interested.
I walked over the BDR trailer and the Owner greeted me by Name.
By the end of the day I made my purchase.
I know that was a lot of rambling about a individual sale but from My perspective people do business with people and that is one of the most important things to consider when making a decision like this.

My last comment will be about the after sale process.

#1 They met every commitment.
#2 Everything went as they said it would.
#3 I have come to determine that it was not just to make a sale. These people are really nice people.
#4 I had one problem that they told me what to do about and if it didn’t work they would send the replacement part right away. No questions.

Good luck on your decision.

BDR712

dmorse · #28 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 07:30 PM

Jim, the only thing I have to say is I am happy with my BDR. It was within my price range so I was happy to get it as I was not willing to pay the additional amount for the SPF (not saying it's not worth it, just saying the BDR was in my budget). I still need to sort out a few things (the front shimmies between 60 and 90 and the carb is running rich). Not sure why it started shimmying all of a sudden but I will get it taken care of. Supposedly the carb came all adjusted but I will get it down to the guy you recommended to have him take a look at it. Jay at Vintage was most helpful to me and to the guy who did my drive train. As you know, I had some issues (three leaking gas tanks, a broken differential, etc., etc.) that were out of my control. I had a bit of a time trying to convince BDR these problems should be under warranty and they originally balked but they eventually came through so that is behind everybody. I'm pleased now and I hope Jay and BDR are also.

I am also happy with the paint job I got. I just polished it today and it looks great. Others have also commented on the paint job favorably. Again, I can't compare to an SPF as the only one I have seen up close is yours and yours is several years older than mine so it is difficult to compare (plus the winter must beat the paint up somewhat).

Happy motoring.

Jim Vander Wal · #29 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 07:42 PM

I have seen but otherwise have limited experience with the Backdraft. I have talked to a few of their sales people and liked them.

I do own a SPF and am biased with no regrets.

I have driven my car to from my home in Michigan to Colorado then Montana and home twice for about 4,500 miles each trip. VIR for track events twice, 15 track days total, the London Cobra Show three times and multiple other long distance drives. In these trips I have had a ignition switch go bad but once I figured it out it was manageable and during a track event I broke a CV joint. This is the extent of malfunctions that caused real problems during trips and events. All this in 42k of hard miles since August of 2004. I have also had a few engine issues but this has nothing to do with the chassis. Oh, I don't own a trailer, if I can't drive to where I want to be I don't go.

I drive in the rain too, lots of it without issues. Good tires, high speed (80-100) and the water goes over the cockpit. So much for those that don't think you can drive in the rain, my SPF and I will prove them wrong.

Why a SPF - because it works, it looks great, excellent paint, great interiors, most pieces are period correct. The car is fitted with top, tonneau cover, leather seats, wood or leather steering wheel, coil overs, IRS, great brakes, Halibrand style wheels and knock-offs and many things that are options with other brands.

Are there things that could be improved, of course, show me any car that doesn't beg for personalization or specialization to accommodate a particular use. With the SPF the SCOF group discusses enhancements, lighting for night driving, suspension for track uses, exhaust for increased performance, roll bars, brakes for track use. People have been doing the same with cars since four wheels hit the road.

Is it pricey well this depends on how you look at it. If you want a complete car that you just need to choose and install the drive train then it's a great value.

I'd do it again if needed to w/o looking back or thinking about another brand.

But I'm biased.

Jim SPF 1855

jagxjr5012 · #30 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Because, in the end, you get what you pay for.

what? huh?

Got the Bug · #31 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcracing

I have to tell you that I had the money to buy either one and it really came down to what company treated me with the respect and took the time to answer all my stupid questions. SPF had me in there display booth not once but five different time in two different shows. I had one person actually talk to me and that was just to ask me if I could move aside so he could show the car to someone else. They did not ever make me feel like a company I wanted to spend my hard earned money with.

BDR was not only courteous to me but actually followed up with the things they said they would provide after they returned back to Florida. The next time I saw them they were right next to the SPF trailer again so I had to be sure it wasn’t me. This time I actually asked for help and they gave me the token speech that was for anyone stopping buy but never once did they even ask if I was interested.
I walked over the BDR trailer and the Owner greeted me by Name.
By the end of the day I made my purchase.
I know that was a lot of rambling about a individual sale but from My perspective people do business with people and that is one of the most important things to consider when making a decision like this.

My last comment will be about the after sale process.

#1 They met every commitment.
#2 Everything went as they said it would.
#3 I have come to determine that it was not just to make a sale. These people are really nice people.
#4 I had one problem that they told me what to do about and if it didn’t work they would send the replacement part right away. No questions.

Good luck on your decision.

BDR712

You should add..."your mileage may vary." I drove several cars, but my heart was set on an SPF. I didn't like the first SPF dealer and sales rep that I contacted, so I went to another dealer. Really no different than when you're buying a daily driver. The second dealer/salesman was so low key that I tried to hand him a check for a deposit and he said to think about for a week.

Superformance met all of their pre-sales and post sales commitments in my book.

Drive the cars, decide which manufacturer you want to go with, then focus on where you're going to buy the car from (used, new, which dealer). Not rocket science.

Bartruff1 · #32 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhv48

Keep em coming.

Would like to hear from BDR owners as well as SPF owners that had problems with the car during the first year and how they were handled by the dealer.

SPF2811....months of delay on delivery ....leaks...squeaks.....rattles.....failed ball joint.....improper installation of vacuum pump needed to be replaced...tire out of round ... vibration in stearing wheel....needed carb tune...fan thermo has to be replaced..no help from dealer... had a hell of a time getting MSO eventually ....I would never ever order a new car again...in addition to risking your deposit in case of a bankruptcy you will have to go thru the "teething problems" not found in a production car...I think the nearest dealer is 350 miles away... BUT...the car is a blast to drive....if I were to do it again, I would buy a existing sorted used car with a clear title and registration....it had to be the worst buying experience in my life...

RedBarchetta · #33 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

SPF2811....months of delay on delivery ....leaks...squeaks.....rattles.....failed ball joint.....improper installation of vacuum pump needed to be replaced...tire out of round ... vibration in stearing wheel....needed carb tune...fan thermo has to be replaced..no help from dealer... had a hell of a time getting MSO eventually had to forge bills of sale and mileage statement to get licence ....I would never ever order a new car again...in addition to risking your deposit in case of a bankruptcy you will have to go thru the "teething problems" not found in a production car...I think the nearest dealer is 350 miles away... BUT...the car is a blast to drive....if I were to do it again, I would buy a existing sorted used car with a clear title and registration....it had to be the worst buying experience in my life...

Just to be fair, over half the stuff you listed wasn't the factory's fault; it was either the dealer's responsibility or another manufacturer's product (i.e. out of round tire, vacuum pump (not factory on any SPF), carb tune, to name a few).

You guys that can't turn a wrench crack me up some times. Not picking on you personally, so don't take it wrong. These cars are not like going to your local Chevy dealer and buying a Z06. It's not the same experience.

jhwalker · #34 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 10:28 PM

SPF #2117
me -- 65 years old.

Bought my SPF Cobra almost 5 years ago.

The car is fast enough to get me kicked off every drag strip that I have gone to. Under 11.5, over 125 mph. I drive it to the track (up to 100 miles away) -- run -- get tossed -- and drive home.
The car, stock, is fine for running Willow Springs, Streets of Willow, Buttonwillow. The current set of mods (new sway bars, better shock mounts, etc) will make it even more fun.

The other owners -- represented by scof and its leader, rt -- are a collection of gear-heads, waxers, hard-core racers, show only folks. A diverse group with the common denominator being a love for their cars and care for their fellow SPF owners. I have several other interesting cars, and belong to several other car "associations", but if I could only keep one -- it would be the SPF.

I know and respect the current SPF ownership -- Lance Stander.
I admire the Jimmy Price and the Hi-Tech group in South Africa.
Our cars are under constant scrutiny and development -- by all of the parties involved.

When I ordered the car in 2004, I was scratching an itch that developed while watching the Cobras run at Sebring when I was in college. I never expected to get the pleasure that I have received from owning it, or to have met the great group of owners, and to have established as many friendships with fellow car nuts as I have.
JamesW #2117

PJS50 · #35 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 10:57 PM

I have an older Superformance (#131) and they are on number 2900-something now I believe, maybe 3000?... You can't beat that kind of a track record in Cobra replicas...

I don't know what some of the others on this site are talking about "more room", if you own one of the newer Superformances (past chassis #700 I think) it is very common for a 6'4"-6'5" driver to fit just fine in the cockpit of the Superformance... How tall are you?

I almost built a "kit" before I found my Superformance, and I tell you what, those 92" wheelbase cars look funny after only dealing with the correct 90" cars (like the Superformance)... I wouldn't get one of the "off sized" ones for more room, just get the Superformance with the bigger footwells...

I've driven mine in the rain on many occasions with and without the top on... Jim is right, at about 78 MPH the water hits the trunk deck behind you... It's hilarious! Any faster and the wake turbulence brings it into the cockpit behind you. Too much slower and the rain is likely to just fall into your lap... LoL...

Dealers: How many dealers does Backdraft have? Superformance has about 6(?) major dealers well spaced around the country and quite a few smaller-engine installers spaced even closer together... Great availability of parts "in country", excellent product knowledge from anything mechanical to paint codes for the unfortunate figerglass boo-boo...

SPF chassis is simple and yet stiff as a priest with a pocket full of Viagra at a summer camp for boys... That's all I'm going to say about that

I don't know about the backdraft, but a 385 series Ford engine fit very nicely under the hood of a Superformance... The newer SPF chassis can also fit a new Ford Modular engine! I know you were looking at a sb, but there is no replacement for displacement (that's another arguement all in itself)!

Finally, the BEST thing about a Superformance- The OTHER Superformance owners and that secret society called SCOF! I have never met so many genuinely "good" people as I have since owning a Superformance! Helpful to a fault. Kind, giving, like an extended family that has to be experienced to be believed, and it's WORLD WIDE!. SCOF... Well, I am sure you've heard the rumors that we control the weather, lets just leave it at that

jhwalker · #36 (**permalink**) 04-27-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJS50

SPF chassis is simple and yet stiff as a priest with a pocket full of Viagra at a summer camp for boys... That's all I'm going to say about that

I give. No way to compete with that...

Bartruff1 · #37 (**permalink**) 04-28-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Just to be fair, over half the stuff you listed wasn't the factory's fault; it was either the dealer's responsibility or another manufacturer's product (i.e. out of round tire, vacuum pump (not factory on any SPF), carb tune, to name a few).

You guys that can't turn a wrench crack me up some times. Not picking on you personally, so don't take it wrong. These cars are not like going to your local Chevy dealer and buying a Z06. It's not the same experience.

None of it was the factory's fault...he asked for comments on dealer support. Lance has always been quick to respond. I don't turn wrenches, I put gas in them and drive..

Roger Vincent · #38 (**permalink**) 04-28-2009, 04:45 AM

I ordered and bought 2080 from the Rosens in Ohio. The first time I saw a Superformance was in a car show in Indiana and I knew that was the one. So after a few years of saving and the selling of a 94 Corvette, I did the deed. That was in late 2004. After placing the order I had second thoughts as cognitive dissonance began. After discussing the decision with Pete Brock and getting his endorsement I went with it. Shelby's licensure was the icing on the cake for me. I have never, and I mean never, had any major problems with the car and have made about 100+ passes at the drag strip and put about 12,500 miles on the car so far. These are just my experiences with the car. I saw the Backdraft at the London event a few years back. Great looking car. I like it a lot. I never drove one and wasn't in the market at the time. I am just saying I like the way it looks. But as others have said, I too have enjoyed the SPF and have no regrets. So, add one more personal opinion to your list. Good luck with your decision. I bet you can't make a bad one in this case. BTW, dealer support from Dynamic was a great experience for me. And of course there is SCOF.

Roger Vincent, SP2080

TButtrick · #39 (**permalink**) 04-28-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJS50

I have an older Superformance (#131) and they are on number 2900-something now I believe, maybe 3000?... You can't beat that kind of a track record in Cobra replicas...

Excepting of course for Factory Five.

kayakjack · #40 (**permalink**) 04-28-2009, 05:55 AM

Bought my Superformance used about 2 1/2 years ago. It has been as bulletproof as my Miata. I did not expect that. I have tinkered around with it. Mostly routine maintenance stuff. I am a wrench wannabe. Wish I had more knowledge and experience as a mechanic. The other owners at SCOF are simply the best. Nicest, most knowledgable, eager to help people on the planet. I am a happy Superformance camper.

Jack