Overheating Issues, Perplexed

[undy]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Hi Dave. Still waiting on mine but that's okay, its hotter than hell here in Houston and my energy level is looowwww. I haven't really thought out the wiring, though I do think I am going to buy that Hollister relay wiring kit I mentioned earlier. I think I'll hook it up so that the low speed comes on with the 180 elec temp sensor in my radiator hose, and the high speed is dash switchable. So down the road it will either be off because the engine is running cool enough or on low speed, but hi speed is reserved for low speed driving and idling.

I agree.. I think I'm probably going to do the same thing, go with the Hollister unit and the same wiring rational. But ... after doing some more research, there's a 740 Volvo 2 speed fan relay set that works well with the Taurus fan too. It has the right ampacity and has been/is available for minimal bucks on Epay too. I'm going to look into that also before making the leap. I might just pick up a couple of the Tyco HD 75 amp relays since I've an operable temperature control system in place... decisions, decisions..

It's odd though, I measured the actual fan blade wheel diameter on the new Taurus fan. It measured 16". I was wondering why they call it a 17" fan? I then measured the fan blade wheel on my current shrouded 16" Flex-a-lite fan and it measures 15".. Go figure?? The size rating must represent the fans' blade housings, not the actual blade diameter. (I guess sorts like bragging about an 8 incher when it's only 7" )

The shroud size and the fan/housing stand-off from the radiator is smaller that previously specified in the thread (a good thing).. shroud measurements are 21" x 16". The width is trimmable to 20". The fore and aft distance (thickness) is 3 1/2", not 5". That pretty much duplicates my existing flex-a-lite setup, very adaptable. I'm pretty sure I can make this puppy fit.

I really don't have an overheating problem now but I still could use more cooling though, for my Pond 482. At this point I'm not planning on tearing it all apart this far into the season. My hopes are waiting for the annual "winter overhaul" for making the conversion. I will get everything together though, just in case I nedd to "fast track" the change-over.

Dave

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by undy

there's a 740 Volvo 2 speed fan relay set that works well with the Taurus fan too.

I saw that setup. I think I'll search around the web and see if i can find any comments about it.

Originally Posted by undy

Go figure?? The size rating must represent the fans' blade housings, not the actual blade diameter. (I guess sorts like bragging about an 8 incher when it's only 7" )

Or like saying an engine makes 600HP when the dyno said something.......less.

[undy]

I bench ran the fan on both speeds a few minutes ago. I made some 8 gauge patch cables for the test. Holy cow, that sucker moves some air on high speed. In fact, to say quite a bit more that the unit I'm currently running would be an understatement. I would think that after installing this unit your heat issues will be a thing of the past. Is your alternator up to the task, idle amps specifically? You'll need a good stout 55 amps or so at idle to keep everything running, including the hi-speed fan.

I've been thinking some more on the fan wiring. Here's my plan... I'm going to install a two position toggle switch on the dash, hi-speed & low-speed. With a flip of the switch I'll be able to choose which speed will cycle via my Painless fan thermostat, hi speed for those scorcher days and lo speed for the rest. In addition I'll run another 3 position toggle switch which will be a manual on for the fan, on-hi, off, 0n-low. I think I'm going to build my own relay pac. I'll use heavier duty relays than the Hollister unit does. I'll mount it all to a piece of 0.090" aluminum, probably with a decorative cover too.

I might have to put this conversion on a faster track..

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by undy

Is your alternator up to the task, idle amps specifically? You'll need a good stout 55 amps or so at idle to keep everything running, including the hi-speed fan.

I am running a 100 AMP alternator, not sure if that's enough. Thoughts?

[undy]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I am running a 100 AMP alternator, not sure if that's enough. Thoughts?

It's the idle amps you have to worry about. The 100 amp rating is peak load. Most performance alternators will carry an idle amp rating too.

[elmariachi]

My guess would be 20-30 amps at idle, which will not be enough.

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by undy

I bench ran the fan on both speeds a few minutes ago. I made some 8 gauge patch cables for the test. Holy cow, that sucker moves some air on high speed. In fact, to say quite a bit more that the unit I'm currently running would be an understatement. I would think that after installing this unit your heat issues will be a thing of the past. Is your alternator up to the task, idle amps specifically? You'll need a good stout 55 amps or so at idle to keep everything running, including the hi-speed fan.

I've been thinking some more on the fan wiring. Here's my plan... I'm going to install a two position toggle switch on the dash, hi-speed & low-speed. With a flip of the switch I'll be able to choose which speed will cycle via my Painless fan thermostat, hi speed for those scorcher days and lo speed for the rest. In addition I'll run another 3 position toggle switch which will be a manual on for the fan, on-hi, off, 0n-low. I think I'm going to build my own relay pac. I'll use heavier duty relays than the Hollister unit does. I'll mount it all to a piece of 0.090" aluminum, probably with a decorative cover too.

I might have to put this conversion on a faster track..

Undy,

What if you hook the low speed to one side of the toggle with the thermo on/off and hook up the fast speed to the other side of the toggle as a bypass. That way you would only have one switch.

Terry

[Garage10]

Hey guy's
Just google taurus fan and all kinds of 4x4 forums come up with lotsa guy's showing how to wire these up or go to delta current controls web or dccontrols.com as they have a neat variable speed controller for the fan or a complete package. But, he's real slow and kindof a p!@#k to deal with. Still waiting for mine. When/if I get it in I will post results.
Brent

[undy]

Originally Posted by Garage10

Hey guy's
Just google taurus fan and all kinds of 4x4 forums come up with lotsa guy's showing how to wire these up or go to delta current controls web or dccontrols.com as they have a neat variable speed controller for the fan or a complete package. But, he's real slow and kindof a p!@#k to deal with. Still waiting for mine. When/if I get it in I will post results.
Brent

"dccontrols.com" doesn't work. Can you provide a link to your suppliers site?

Keep us posted..

Dave

[vettestr]

El or Undy,
I am now confused (spend a lot of time there) about the actual fan assembly you bought. Is it a SVO, Sable or Mercury etc.. can you define a model and year as a target for me. I realize many models might interchange but a specific would help me. THANKS

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by vettestr

El or Undy,
I am now confused (spend a lot of time there) about the actual fan assembly you bought. Is it a SVO, Sable or Mercury etc.. can you define a model and year as a target for me. I realize many models might interchange but a specific would help me. THANKS

My fan has not arrived yet but the Seller reaffirmed that its the Lincoln Mark VIII that was also used in the Taurus from approximately '92-'98. My advice is to go to eBay and search for "Lincoln Continental Fan" and "Ford Taurus Fan" and read through the auctions and you'll start seeing a pattern of fan types/blade styles. Some guys selling these to the 4 wheel drive and hot rod crowds state in their auctions that you should stay away from the aftermarket new Taurus replacement fans because they don't have as much cfm. I don't know if this is true or not, but I figured I would start out with a used $50 fan and if its works decide from there whether to buy a new one or not.

I hate linking to eBay because once eBay drops the listing, the links are dead in this thread, but here is the fan type I bought:

and here is the monster fan.

Read the Seller's feedback on each and you'll what people say about these fans.

[vettestr]

THANKS,

With that I found ..... Part # on my fan is: F2DE 80607-AB

"A Mark 7 or 8 is going to be a lot harder to find than a Taurus. Tauruses are everywhere..." from google then a chat board

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by vettestr

THANKS,

With that I found ..... Part # on my fan is: F2DE 80607-AB

"A Mark 7 or 8 is going to be a lot harder to find than a Taurus. Tauruses are everywhere..." from google then a chat board

Here's one from a Continental for $25, but you might want to email him and confirm its a 2-speed (three wires coming out, two for speed and one ground.)

[undy]

Originally Posted by vettestr

El or Undy,
I am now confused (spend a lot of time there) about the actual fan assembly you bought. Is it a SVO, Sable or Mercury etc.. can you define a model and year as a target for me. I realize many models might interchange but a specific would help me. THANKS

The Lincoln Mk 8 uses an 18" fan with a much larger shroud, 26" x 19" I believe. The 90-95 3.8L Taurus uses the same fan motor as the lincoln but has a 17" fan and a much smaller shroud, 21" x 16". The Lincoln will move a bit more air but at the price on an unacceptably large fan and shroud for 90% of Cobra applications. The 90-95 3.8L Taurus fan seems to be the most popular "transplant" fan by far. Stay away from the "SHO" fans as they're smaller and weaker that the 3.8 Taurus and Lincoln.

Dave

[elmariachi]

Dave is right, since my original post on this fan subject I have since learned that the SHO fans are smaller and some of the early ones were single speed only I think.

Its hotter'n hell here in Houston this week (100*+ and 50%+ humidity) and I can't wait to try this out. While waiting on the fan I got impatient, so I dropped my TKO to fix a small bearing retainer leak and I dropped my oil pan to fix a leak there. Now if I can fix this cooling problem, I might actually see how my new Cobra looks with the hood closed.

[Thoroco]

My name is Dave Chapman from The Hollister Road Co the maker of the relay kit for the 2 speed Mark VIII fan mentioned above. I read through the posts on the overheating issues and can offer some basic suggestions.

First is that it doesn't matter if you have a 5000 CFM fan and a 10 row radiator if you can only get 3000 CFM out of the engine compartment. So air in has to be less than or equal to air out.

Next is the primary purpose of engine oil is to cool the engine by removing the heat created from the friction of moving parts. One of the best ways to reduce engine heat is by using an oil cooler either passive or fan cooled.

Third is the water must be able to be transfer the cylinder heat into the water and back out to the radiator and into the air in a reasonable manner. Straight water is not very good at heat transfer. Use a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze or use aftermarket products like Water Wetter Additive. They break the surface tension on the internal block areas so the heat will transfer to the water and again to the radiator. Anti-freeze will absorb more heat per pound than straight water before it gasses off or boils. You can also use a radiator mister that helps transfer the heat out of the radiator but that can get messy.

I haven't had my head under the hood of a Cobra since 67 but as I remember it was tightly packed with a 427 so it may well be the air can't get out of the compartment fast enough to let air past the radiator. You could also have air flowing around the fan assembly bypassing and not drawing through the fan shroud.
Tight motors make more heat so the oil cooler would be a good start in cooling down you motor.

I haven't really seen timing as an issue with overheating but I have seen very lean motors run hot. You may want to look at your jetting to see where you are. If you’re down in the low 60's high 50's then you might want to jet up a bit.

As for the Alernator being large enough to operate the Mark VIII or Taurus fans, 100 amps will do it if you don't have A/C or a big Audio system. The fans don't run off the alternator they run off the battery as do all the electrical components. The alernator is for charging the battery not running components. The test for that is disconnect the battery and everything will work for about 2 hours maybe longer, disconnect the battery and your alternator will burn up within 2 hours of use.

The big amp draw on the Mark VIII is miliseconds and its from dead stop to high speed. Starting on low doesn't have that issue and if you are using a 180 to start on low then you step through to a higher temp sensor like a 195 then your not starting from dead stop and the amp draw is reduced greatly. I have a 180 and a 195 on my truck and it cycles low speed on 180 to high speed 195 in traffic back to 180 and then off while on the Hiway. I'm using 60 amp relays that can take a 150 amp spike and 50 amp fuse that is a Slow Blow and takes the 100 amp millisceond spikes.

If I can answer any questions for you on cooling let me know. info@thoroco.com

[undy]

Originally Posted by Thoroco

My name is Dave Chapman from The Hollister Road Co the maker of the relay kit for the 2 speed Mark VIII fan mentioned above. I read through the posts on the overheating issues and can offer some basic suggestions.

First is that it doesn't matter if you have a 5000 CFM fan and a 10 row radiator if you can only get 3000 CFM out of the engine compartment. So air in has to be less than or equal to air out.

Next is the primary purpose of engine oil is to cool the engine by removing the heat created from the friction of moving parts. One of the best ways to reduce engine heat is by using an oil cooler either passive or fan cooled.

Third is the water must be able to be transfer the cylinder heat into the water and back out to the radiator and into the air in a reasonable manner. Straight water is not very good at heat transfer. Use a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze or use aftermarket products like Water Wetter Additive. They break the surface tension on the internal block areas so the heat will transfer to the water and again to the radiator. Anti-freeze will absorb more heat per pound than straight water before it gasses off or boils. You can also use a radiator mister that helps transfer the heat out of the radiator but that can get messy.

I haven't had my head under the hood of a Cobra since 67 but as I remember it was tightly packed with a 427 so it may well be the air can't get out of the compartment fast enough to let air past the radiator. You could also have air flowing around the fan assembly bypassing and not drawing through the fan shroud.
Tight motors make more heat so the oil cooler would be a good start in cooling down you motor.

I haven't really seen timing as an issue with overheating but I have seen very lean motors run hot. You may want to look at your jetting to see where you are. If you’re down in the low 60's high 50's then you might want to jet up a bit.

As for the Alernator being large enough to operate the Mark VIII or Taurus fans, 100 amps will do it oif yu don't have A/C or a big Audio system. The fans don't run off the alternator they run off the battery as do all the electrical components. The alernator is for charging the battery not running components. The test for that is disconnect the battery and everything will work for about 2 hours maybe longer, disconnect the battery and your alternator will burn up within 2 hours of use.

The big amp draw on the Mark VIII is miliseconds and its from dead stop to high speed. Starting on low doesn't have that issue and if you are using a 180 to start on low then you step through to a higher temp sensor like a 195 then your not starting from dead stop and the amp draw is reduced greatly. I have a 180 and a 195 on my truck and it cycles low speed on 180 to high speed 195 in traffic back to 180 and then off while on the Hiway. I'm using 60 amp relays that can take a 150 amp spike and 50 amp fuse that is a Slow Blow and takes the 100 amp millisceond spikes.

If I can answer any questions for you on cooling let me know. info@thoroco.com

Dave, Your 180 and 190 sensors, are they electric, exterior cap tube or designed to go into the coolant?

Dave

[Thoroco]

They are single terminal 3/8 pipe thread. they screw into the head or manifold

[undy]

Originally Posted by Thoroco

They are single terminal 3/8 pipe thread. they screw into the head or manifold

... thanks.

[elmariachi]

Hi Dave,

In my case, an oil cooler will not apply in this situation because my oil is not overheating and I need to keep the temp up to where its presently running at 210-220*F for performance and wear reasons common to these engines. I agree about the limited room in the engine compartment. Fortunately with many of these cars, the radiator is slanted back at the top, so the fan actually discharges down around the oil pan and on the ground beneath the car. But coupled with headers and a cast iron block and heads, its hotter'n hell in there. My new fan JUST arrived this evening and it fits my radiator perfectly. I am confident this Taurus fan will do the trick, based on the fact that my existing 3600 cfm puller, along with the old 2100 cfm pusher laid in front, kept it idling at 197*F. That's without a shroud.