Overheating Issues, Perplexed

[twobjshelbys]

Here is an interesting thing. As soon as I get mine home from a drive where the gauge went hot, as soon as I got home I put my hand on both sides of the radiator and it is cool. It's doing its job.

I'm still getting a little blow by - the coke bottle had an accident on Monday - but it was over 90. The bottle is about 1/2 full and the tank at cool is also 1/2 full. I still think this is the right track.

I ordered a 160*F high flow thermostat and 22/24lb cap from Summit racing today. Should be here Thursday.

[Monster]

Notes on "Antifreeze"
The MAIN purpose of "Antifreeze" is to lower freezing temp, A side affect of the Propylene glycol & Ethylene glycol (the primary ingredients in "Antifreeze") is that they also raise the boiling point ( the point at which the liquid becomes a gas).

This does not mean that it (antifreeze) makes a car run cooler, it means that it increases (raises) the point at which the cooling system water will boil.

It (antifreeze) does not significantly increase or improve the "convective heat transfer" capability of water (the ability of water to exchange heat). Convective Heat Transfer is whats key in getting your car to run cooler.

Here are some links to comparitive tests of "water", "water wetters" and "antifreeze mixtures". Note the running temps recorded.

redlineoil: whitePaper

turbomagazine: cooling system additives test results

hope this helps,
mike

[knelson]

Another thing to check is that your carb is jetted properly for your climate. If you are running too lean it will also cause over heating trouble. Best way to check it easily is by checking the carbon line on the electrode strap of one your spark plugs after a full throttle run up in a couple gears then key off the motor at full throttle and coast to a stop. Then check the carbon mark. It should Ideally be at the base of the electrode where it starts up from the circle base of the plug. If it's higher you need to go up in jet size until you get it there. Best way to dial in your motor for optimum power and help your motor to run cooler!

[twobjshelbys]

Well, as I mentioned in my topic here:

Another overheating thread

there was someone who suggested checking the impeller on the water pump. Indeed, that was the root cause of my problem. Whoda thought that on a car with 500 miles? I'd be curious what the stimulus of the failure is so I don't do it. I suspect is was extremely fast acceleration.

Got a new pump and now solid as a rock at 78*C and that is without the aux fan running. This morning I topped it off after all the air bled out to the baffle plate in the Kirkham tank and there was no overflow in the coke bottle.

[WildBill3]

I went and got a Tarus fan today and on the FFR its a perrrfect fit Thanks so much for posting your fav fan combos.We ran at Hallet a couple of weeks ago in all that heat with our stock FFR setup and to say the least the car didnt stay cool at all 103 in the shade running the watever out of the engine,allthough it never pushed water the engine and myself was waaay to hot.We ran the Water wetter and 50/50 mix before going to a larger Rad im going to give this a try.The stock Fan unit only covers 70 percent of the radiator so im looking forward to using the Tarus unit that cover the rad all the way. thanks again...WB3

[elmariachi]

Post up some pics on this thread if you get time. Hope it works for you.

Jim

[sdfletch]

Monster,

Thanks, It's always nice to have a scientist present the correct scoop.

[Garage10]

Hi All
Just an update. I finally recieved and installed my DC controls variable speed fan controller on my new 97 ford taurus fan and it works awesome. It starts to ramp fan up at 180F real easy as to not pull large amps. Rally smooth and at shut down ramps down nice and slow. The only thing is the fan doesn't sound like it is pulling that hard. I sure hope I didn't screw up and hook up to low speed side. I thought I was careful. did a few cooling hose mods and car ran in garage at ambient 74F for 25 minutes and never went over 198F which I think is pretty good. But, I didnt try it with hood down yet to see how hot it gets. Will try soon and let everyone know.
Brent

[elmariachi]

My overheating problem is officially solved with the Taurus cooling fan. The car has been off the road for the entire month of July as I have had Armando modifying the oil pan to clear the rear main bolts. After installing the fan and getting it all back together I finally hit the road this afternoon. I had wired the low speed to the 185* inline thermo switch and the high speed is wired to a dash toggle. Outdoor temps today were in the low 90's and humidity was 60%, It was very muggy and hot and I started by letting it idle in the driveway for 20-30 minutes. It never got above 190*F with the fan on low. I then went out and pushed the car pretty hard. I never had to turn the high speed on as the car stayed right a 185-190*F, even stopped in traffic. I suspect that if it were 95-100* outside I might need the high speed, but even that is a maybe.

After all is said and done, I don't think its the fan itself as much as the proper shroud. The Taurus shroud covers nearly all of the 27"x19" PRC radiator surface used by Hurricane, and that's far more coverage than I was getting with the 16" round Zirgo fan. My only gripe about the Taurus fan is the shroud edges are molded to fit some variations on the edge of the Taurus radiator and so its doesn't look extremely original. But I think I can solve most of that with some trimming and sanding/filing.

Another factor in this was the timing, which was probably advanced a bit too much at 20* (the folks at Demon seem to think more advance solves all problems I guess.) Patrick helped me work through that and provided offline education and moral support. I feel much more competent in FE tuning and timing thanks to him.

Also thanks to David Gagnard and all of you who posted your advice and comments and sent emails and PMs. Maybe this thread will be helpful to others in the future.

Jim

P.S. All the above was with the 180*F NAPA standard Ford OEM t-stat drilled with 4 holes, and nothing but distilled water.

[undy]

Good to hear El... It sure sounds as if you've got it knocked down now.

I bought the Hollister relay setup with both temp sensors, 180 and 195. I'm out of bungs on my tunnel wedge intake for the 2nd temp sensor so I'm going to drill a hole in the bottom of my expansion tank and silver solder a new bung in there for the second sensor (195). It'll be hidden since it's in the bottom of the tank. I'm also hoping I don't generate any unwanted electrolytic action by doing this, time will tell. (looking for opinions on this too)I prefer to have both high and low speeds to work in auto. I'll also run a toggle for high speed.

I was properly shrouded before so I think it's more of a CFM thing, more-so than the shroud .... at least in my case. You also have a larger radiator than the Lone Star has, 27" wide vs 22", so you're probably not as "cooling challenged" as I am. I do have the 1 1/4" tubes vs the "normal" 1" tubes so that helps. I’m really looking forward to doing my conversion ...

Dave

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by undy

I'm out of bungs on my tunnel wedge intake for the 2nd temp sensor so I'm going to drill a hole in the bottom of my expansion tank and silver solder a new bung in there for the second sensor (195).

I too would prefer the high circuit be on an auto switch as well. I may just sh*%-can my heater plumbing and use that manifold hole. It not like I need a heater in Houston in a car with no top.

[vettestr]

Although you are a little limited to sensor locations or accurate pick up points the heater pick up points are many. You can get creative with T's and parallel lines since all you want is hot coolant.

A side note from earlier post, remember to add anti-rust or corrosion additives to eliminate electrolysis problems and get seal/lube agents.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Jim;

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, I'm glad it all worked out, there is nothing worse than going for a drive and having to constantly watch the temp gauge and wonder when will it overheat again.............

I'd be willing to bet on high speed, you could let that thing idle all day long and be o-k temp wise, now, you need to go do a parade and show off the car.

PS: Now that it's all working properly, I'd add some rust inhibitor/lubricant like Prestone and maybe a half gallon of anti-freeze.... Can't hurt and will slow down corrosion inside the block..

David

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I may just sh*%-can my heater plumbing and use that manifold hole. It not like I need a heater in Houston in a car with no top.

Don't do that -- just use a tube in the bottom of your lower radiator hose with the sensor welded in to it. It works very well and it's another job you can do largely while sitting at the kitchen table. Here's a shot of mine:

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

I'd be willing to bet on high speed, you could let that thing idle all day long and be o-k temp wise, now, you need to go do a parade and show off the car.

PS: Now that it's all working properly, I'd add some rust inhibitor/lubricant like Prestone and maybe a half gallon of anti-freezeDavid

Its 95*F out now and I just let it sit idling in the driveway for 30 minutes and it stayed at 195 with the fan on low and between 185-190 with the fan on high. I have not added anything to the water yet, but plan to this eve.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Don't do that -- just use a tube in the bottom of your lower radiator hose with the sensor welded in to it. It works very well and it's another job you can do largely while sitting at the kitchen table. Here's a shot of mine:

Yep, that's exactly how my primary sensor is installed in the upper hose. I was trying to avoid having another one of those in the system but I guess it really doesn't matter, its hidden down below anyway.

[MFE III]

Jim, glad you've got it solved. Please post some pics of the install. I may well go that route as well.
Matt

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by MFE III

Jim, glad you've got it solved. Please post some pics of the install. I may well go that route as well.
Matt

Hi Matt. Its an awesome fan. I ran around again this evening and it was 185*-190* all the way ground pouding around the 'burbs, and 180* down the road. This coming weekend I plan to remove it, trim the shroud a bit and engineer some permanent mounts using the 4 existing through-bolts from the Hurricane fan. I'll post up pics over on this Taurus fan thread when I am done.

I highly recommend it for the Hurricane.

[jbrianboyd]

Try reversing the polarity of the fans' electrical connectors. I had the same problem until I discovered that the fans were blowing air out rather than sucking it in!

[elmariachi]

We are all good now with the Taurus fan. I have put 200 miles on the car in the blazing Texas heat, including an hour of brutal stop-and-go traffic in a construction zone a couple weeks ago and it hasn't been back over 90*C/195*F yet. Best $50 I have ever spent.

[Jamo]

thanksbetogod

Now enjoy it.