Rick Kopec's "What's Your Beef?"

[RodKnock]

Since Mr. Kopec doesn't post over here, I thought I would add it to this thread for all on Club Cobra to read.

Mr. Kopec was responding to the following question:

Question: "So would you consider using the term replica for any non-original Cobra?

Could any of these be considered a replica?
- A Brian Angliss reconstructed car, like the Cosby twin paxton car?
- A CSX30xx completion car?
- A really accurate copy made from a Kirkham or an Aluminum CSX4000 with original suspension, girling brakes, etc."

Mr. Kopec's answer follows:

"It's all a matter of semantics. To quote a great American, "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." We use labels as shorthand to identify a particular type of car. When someone says "original Cobra" there is no question they are referring to a CSX2000 or a CSX3000 car. It’s easier than trotting out a laundry list of characteristics that a car has to have to be considered an original Cobra (e.g. built between 1961 and 1967 by AC Cars Ltd. under a contract by Shelby American, completed by the factory or one of its authorized representatives, and sold in that time frame by the factory or a franchised dealer). It’s like shorthand.

Where the rub comes in is, who decides which labels are accurate? Anyone can call a car anything they want. This is why Cobra replicas are often referred to differently (replica, kit car, clone, fake, reproduction, knock-off, copy-cat, etc.). Some people (owners mostly, who have a dog in the hunt) prefer some descriptions more than others and feel some labels may be disparaging or prejudicial to their car. They are entitled to their feelings, but just "feeling" doesn't make anyone else right or wrong. Mostly this is determined by common usage. For fiberglass-bodied cars like the ERA, Contemporary, Factory 5, etc. Cobra replica or replica Cobra seems to have become the coin on the realm.

But when you move on to aluminum-bodied cars with the same tube frame and sub-framing as the originals (Autokraft MK IV, Kirkham, CSX4000, etc) Cobra replica doesn’t seem to fit as precisely. This is mostly because that terfm has been used so often to refer to fiberglass bodied “kit cars.” So it becomes less accurate when referring to these cars, which are more closely made to original specifications. Naturally, in the name of accuracy, people want to use something else. But what, exactly? It’s a good question. And it probably has many answers. Mostly, whether you like it or not, it will come down to what the common usage is.

Personally, I subscribe to the “Kill’ em all and let God sort ‘em out” philosophy. I call them all Cobra because that’s what they look like. Then to differentiate between them I attach an adjective. Kind of like a genus and species in zoology. Original needs no explanation; when you say “original Cobra” there is no question what you are talking about. And Replica has come to describe the fiberglass bodied kit car genre. CSX4000, Kirkham and AC MK IV are all pretty descriptive when added to “Cobra” so I don’t see the need to find some kind of catch-all term that will fit them all. You can’t do it with one word anyway.

The question of semantics is an interesting one but you can get too wrapped up in it and pretty soon you’re debating how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin."

One of my favorite lines of all time from our former President. Great line.

Does he address fiberglass CSX4000's? Does it matter?

[1ntCobra]

I wonder who asked that question?

I notice he did not use the terms genuine or real in his answer.

He does lump Kirkham and CSX4000 into the same category that he calls just "Cobra" though.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I wonder who asked that question?

I notice he did not use the terms genuine or real in his answer.

He does lump Kirkham and CSX4000 into the same category that he calls just "Cobra" though.

You da man!

[Ronbo]

I get upset when people refer to an adjustable wrench as a "cresent wrench".

Must be a slow day in Cobra news...

Posi sounds cool, if Ford had thought of a better name (like Detroit locker) the public might have picked it up...

I can think of a lot of things to have a "beef" about, this ain't one of them...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I get upset when people refer to an adjustable wrench as a "cresent wrench".

I get equally upset they use the term "cresent roll."

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I get equally upset they use the term "cresent roll."

Oh Patrick, so he forgot a "c". I thought Evan was the CC spelling bee champ.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Oh Patrick, so he forgot a "c". I thought Evan was the CC spelling bee champ.

It's just giddiness from the market shooting up this afternoon.

[REAL 1]

I have no problem with his logic.

While he didn't use the term "REAL" or "genuine" in his "answer" to the question, the official SAAC position as to the CSX Continuation Cobras is clear. They do. This answer is HIS answer not SAACs answer.

Additionally, the question was specific. It didn't ask "are Continuation" Cobras "REAL"/genuine Cobras. That position was staked out officially by SAAC.

Also, BTW he clearly separates out in his own opinion the fact that the Continuation series, completion series and in his opinion Kirkhams are not considered "replicas" as that term has come to be commonly used, meant and understood.

They are all fairly referred to as Cobras because they are built to the same spec as the basic original specs. There are many variations in even original cars as to build beyond the basic specs. Hard to find any two originals that are exactly alike.

Kirkhams while not a "Shelby Cobra" and not a real/genuine Cobra as accepted by SAAC I think should be considered a Cobra when referring to it. It follows the basic specs and ingredients to a "T" and has been utilized by SAI for their Continuation series just as AC was used by SAI for the original series. AC's are properly referred to Cobras. Therefore Kirkhams deserve that reference too.

And I also agree that when you refer to Continuation series Cobras, Completion series Cobras and perhaps even Kirkhams as "replicas" it is disparaging to the car because of the common meaning and understanding the term "replica" has come to attain.

Very simply there are Original Cobras and Contiuation series Cobras. Both are real but built at different points in time.

Thats how I see it as to the Shelby Continuation series and thats how SAAC sees it. I think its fair, accurate and factual.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I have no problem with his logic.

Now that you concurred with Mr. Kopec's assessment, I'm sure he'll be able to rest easy this evening.

We're all Cobras, so let's hold hands and sing "Kumbaya." It's all about the adjective.

[REAL 1]

Rodknock: Yes, I'm sure.

Its about respect and fairness. My position has never been different then SAACs.

Case in point: SAACs show categories clearly do not include the Continuation series in the "replica" class.

I rest my case (for now).

[RodKnock]

If I got a nickel for every time you mention the phrase "SAAC's official position", then I would be a very rich man.

[lamaluv]

Evan I don't think you could ever "rest your case", not now, in the future or the past. I've always wondered if you really believe all your bull $hit or are just trying to get a rise out of dummies like me.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lamaluv

Evan I don't think you could ever "rest your case", not now, in the future or the past.

Generally, when you "rest your case" you need leave of court to re-open it.

[REAL 1]

Rodknock: True, just as I'd be a rich man if every time someone referred to the Continuation series here as a "replica" just to try and get a rise out of me I got a nickel. Its kinda like lightening and thunder. One always follows the other.

And yes you are correct. You need permission to reopen your case if you rest it in Court. But, pssst (whispering)....we're not in court and I was speaking figuratively.

Lamaluv: Do you really luv lamas?. Sorry, couldn't help myself.. Anyway I didn't call you a dummy. You did...and no I don't say what I say just to get a rise out of guys like you. What are you like anyway?
Did you even post on this thread before now????

Actually if you paid attention I actually respond with facts not my opinion to counter "bull$hit" degrading remarks as I see it. So its not a point of "me believing my own bull****, I am countering with the current state of facts as accepted and established by the worlds most respected organizational authority on Cobras and which if I do seem to remember correctly the overwhelming majority of members here supported in the last round of CS litigation. Fact. Another fact..check out the show class catagories for SAAC 34. In the infamous words of Austin Powers "What does it all mean Bazel?"

Maybe you might think this is more of my "bull$hit" but it seems somewhat hyocritical for the overwhelming majority here to not only run but trip and fall over themselves in a rush to support SAAC in the litigation with CS and then want to ignor their position on this issue. But hey, not surprising thats the CC way. Nothing new there.

[tkb289]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I get upset when people refer to an adjustable wrench as a "cresent wrench".

Must be a slow day in Cobra news...

Posi sounds cool, if Ford had thought of a better name (like Detroit locker) the public might have picked it up...

I can think of a lot of things to have a "beef" about, this ain't one of them...

Originally Posted by patrickt

I get equally upset they use the term "cresent roll."

... wait a minute ... what did you say, there was a Q-Tip sticking my ear, easier to use than fumbling for a Kleenex in a Ziploc bag. Be sure to wrap that roll up in Saran warp ... or was that Reynolds wrap, can't remember, but for sure it wasn't with a Scott towel. Well better a Crescent wrench than a Vise-Grip ... enough brand name nonsense ... now back to the thread ...

- Tim

[REAL 1]

Watched the video. Gotta give it to him. John is a funny guy. I know I've made the list of notables here, for whatever thats worth when I'm included in one of his routines along with Sunshine of course after being prompted by one of our asteemed moderators.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Watched the video. Gotta give it to him. John is a funny guy. I know I've made the list of notables here, for whatever thats worth when I'm included in one of his routines along with Sunshine of course after being prompted by one of our asteemed moderators.

Assright, Bubba.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

and then want to ignor their position on this issue. But hey, not surprising thats the CC way. Nothing new there.

Can your "facts" be based upon a SAAC "position." SAAC is only offering their position aka an opinion, though an expert opinion. Experts have been known to be wrong on occasion, although I doubt Mr. Kopec will ever admit to being wrong. Ever.

[Jamo]

And by the way, Mr. "Speling Bee Champ"...

...that's either "esteemed" or, as we prefer, "assteamed"...not "asteemed"

You are most welcome.

[xlr8or]

Evan,
In the last several years have you ever replied to a thread that wasn't a real/replica thread?