Rick Kopec's "What's Your Beef?"

[RodKnock]

I hope Ron doesn't mind, but he started a very interesting thread over on the SAAC Forum about Rick Kopec's "What's Your Beef?" web article. Rick Kopec explains what bothers him. It's very interesting reading.

Discussions seem to be most centered on the following topics:

1. 1965 1/2 or the "Carryover" Shelby Mustangs, why they should or shouldn't be worth more than a 1966 Shelby Mustang, and to a lesser extent

2. Fakes, replicas, continuation, tributes, clones, interpretations, adaptations, etc.

http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=5058.0

Fun reading.

[decooney]

While some folks are wasting time studying words in dictionaries and registries, all worked up worrying themselves trying to figure out what is better or worse than what someone else has, others like us are driving cars made up of any kind quality parts we want, driving them as much as we want, loving every minute of it.

Parts are parts.

[FIA Mike]

I've come to the conclusion that Kopec likes to shoot his mouth off and listen to himself. Take his words with a grain of salt.

My 2 cents worth, FIA Mike

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by decooney

While some folks are wasting time studying words in dictionaries and registries, all worked up worrying themselves trying to figure out what is better or worse than what someone else has, others like us are driving cars made up of any kind quality parts we want, driving them as much as we want, loving every minute of it.

Parts are parts.

Totally agree. I feel sorry for the guys with the "Carryover" 1965 1/2 Shelbys. I actually have always wanted one of the "tweeners."

I've lifted Mr. Kopec's latest comment(s) about "replicas":

"The whole Cobra “replica” thing is another of my beefs but the toothpaste has been out of that tube way too long to ever get it back in. Knowing the actual definition of “replica,” I cringed the first time I saw Cobra kit cars referred to by the word replica—because it was wrong wrong wrong. We specifically referred to these cars as “Cobra kit cars” when they began appearing in the Snakebite but with just about every other magazine and automotive writer referring to them as replicas, I knew we were a voice in the wilderness. It was a losing fight we tired of quickly.

I have a dictionary/thesaurus on my desktop which I refer to frequently. It says a replica is an “exact copy or model of something.” Obviously each individual characteristic on a kit car that differs from an original Cobra renders it one step farther away from the original and makes the description “replica” that much more inaccurate. A fiberglass body is a good starting point; a rectangular tubing frame or 351 CID engine continues in that direction, which is away from the original."

So for you guys with fiberglass cars, square tube frames, 351's, solid rear axles, and/or 5-pin KO's (or heaven forbid, bolt-ons) uh....oh, who cares. Let's drive em.

[VE4MM]

If Shelby continued to build the Cobra. There would be no need for a replica industry.

The more that are supplied to the public, the price would go down.

This problem was created by Shelby himself, and no one else.

He has no one to blame but himself.

Also, one should never take lightly their accomplishments in life. Shelby stopped his involvement in the car industry and went off to other ventures. He seemed to forget the significance of what had done, and threw it all away in a way.

That is one lesson everyone can learn from Shelby.

That is what I can take positively from him.

[Jamo]

All of which is why I truly enjoyed watching Shelby and SAAC take air swings at each last year like a couple of old punch drunk fighters...Rick (with all due respect) comes off like a replica (doopleganger) of Evan.

Duane nailed it...bought my POS tin can to drive.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Jamo

All of which is why I truly enjoyed watching Shelby and SAAC take air swings at each last year like a couple of old punch drunk fighters...Rick (with all due respect) comes off like a replica (doopleganger) of Evan.

Duane nailed it...bought my POS tin can to drive.

Maybe he's trying to stir the pot, but his thoughts and comments sadden me.

[Cashburn]

He loved the kit cars when he needed your checks to fight for his livelihood...

[CobraDan]

I had an owner of a 2008 Mustang at a car show ask me how I could have a Cobra as he was the one who owned a “Cobra” Mustang. I remember going into a Ford dealership back in 2006 and asking to see a Ford GT and the salesmen showed me a Mustang GT. There is a fellow local Backdraft Cobra owner who had a custom show board made with all blue lettering except the second line in red that indicated this was not a “Cobra Kit Car.” It’s hard to believe that a Backdraft is not a “Cobra Kit Car” but a Kirkham is because it can be bought in a kit form, where as a Backdraft is assembled in South Africa on an assembly line. Some type of terminology has to be used to describe what you’re talking about and as with today’s new cars we now have traction control and each manufacturer has a different name to describe it and years from now I’m sure one name will stand out to describe traction control for all the names that exist from the different manufacturers today.

[601HP]

I excitedly joined the national SAAC back in about 1995. I quickly realized as a replica owner that I was considered a "wanna be" by a lot of SAAC original car owners.

During that first year of membership, I received one of their monthly publications. In it was a picture of a truck hitched to an open trailer, and a Cobra situated precariously over the front edge of the trailer. The owner had forgotten to properly strap down the Cobra. When the rig came to a stop, the Cobra rolled forward.

Captioned below the picture were words similar to this: "At least it was just a replica." At that point I humbly realized where I stood within their organization.

David

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by 601HP

I excitedly joined the national SAAC back in about 1995. I quickly realized as a replica owner that I was considered a "wanna be" by a lot of SAAC original car owners.

During that first year of membership, I received one of their monthly publications. In it was a picture of a truck hitched to an open trailer, and a Cobra situated precariously over the front edge of the trailer. The owner had forgotten to properly strap down the Cobra. When the rig came to a stop, the Cobra rolled forward.

Captioned below the picture were words similar to this: "At least it was just a replica." At that point I humbly realized where I stood within their organization.

David

A lot like the SAAC convention circa 1985 when an ERA slipped it's e-brake and rolled down a hill in Dearborn to center punch Jim Wicks Mercury station wagon...as the "Cobra" bled coolant and the owner stared in shock, some "arbiter" pronounced loudly "Thank God it wasn't REAL!!!!"

Seemed "real" enough to the owner...............................

[Jamo]

Dan, do you really think that's what is being discussed...whether there's a need for terminology?

Of course there is. I suspect future editions of the Registry will most certainly label the various 4000s as Polish, Nevada Correctional, African or Mexican.

I'm just damn glad I own a Real Kirkham instead of one of them damn glitzy make-believe ones they started building a few years ago.

[CobraDan]

Jamo,
Yes terminology real or not so real.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

I had an owner of a 2008 Mustang at a car show ask me how I could have a Cobra as he was the one who owned a “Cobra” Mustang. I remember going into a Ford dealership back in 2006 and asking to see a Ford GT and the salesmen showed me a Mustang GT. There is a fellow local Backdraft Cobra owner who had a custom show board made with all blue lettering except the second line in red that indicated this was not a “Cobra Kit Car.” It’s hard to believe that a Backdraft is not a “Cobra Kit Car” but a Kirkham is because it can be bought in a kit form, where as a Backdraft is assembled in South Africa on an assembly line. Some type of terminology has to be used to describe what you’re talking about and as with today’s new cars we now have traction control and each manufacturer has a different name to describe it and years from now I’m sure one name will stand out to describe traction control for all the names that exist from the different manufacturers today.

The whole "not a kit car" or "factory built" (when talking about non-Shelby Cobras) is a strange situation. People who say stuff like that, are trying to let people know that their Cobra is superior to some other Cobras, when they can't say they own a real Shelby Cobra.

I think the biggest problem with SAAC and the "terminology", is their view of the word "replica". They are trying to use the exact dictionary term, meaning an exact copy. So by their view, any non-Shelby built car is not a replica, whereas the rest of the world calls them replicas. And then fighting that notion, makes them look even worse.

In my opinion, a replica is something that is made to look like something else. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. Any non-Shelby built Cobra, should be legitimately called a replica. It's replicating the look of a Shelby Cobra. You can buy a Rolex watch replica right? It looks like a real Rolex, but it's not an "exact copy". Most things that are considered replicas are rarely exact copies.

And a "kit car", is a car you buy as a kit. If it has to be assembled, it's a kit car. If it was built by the manufacturer, it's a rolling chassis and the term kit car is not a valid term. SAAC should stop calling all non-Shelby built Cobras kit cars.

My FFR was a kit car. My Kirkham was a roller. Both were replicas. It's really not that hard to define.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

The whole "not a kit car" or "factory built" (when talking about non-Shelby Cobras) is a strange situation. People who say stuff like that, are trying to let people know that their Cobra is superior to some other Cobras, when they can't say they own a real Shelby Cobra.

I think the biggest problem with SAAC and the "terminology", is their view of the word "replica". They are trying to use the exact dictionary term, meaning an exact copy. So by their view, any non-Shelby built car is not a replica, whereas the rest of the world calls them replicas. And then fighting that notion, makes them look even worse.

In my opinion, a replica is something that is made to look like something else. It doesn't have to be an exact copy. Any non-Shelby built Cobra, should be legitimately called a replica. It's replicating the look of a Shelby Cobra. You can buy a Rolex watch replica right? It looks like a real Rolex, but it's not an "exact copy". Most things that are considered replicas are rarely exact copies.

And a "kit car", is a car you buy as a kit. If it has to be assembled, it's a kit car. If it was built by the manufacturer, it's a rolling chassis and the term kit car is not a valid term. SAAC should stop calling all non-Shelby built Cobras kit cars.

My FFR was a kit car. My Kirkham was a roller. Both were replicas. It's really not that hard to define.

Sal,

Here's some notes from the new Registry, page 708,

"Because he (Shelby) did not want his cars devalued by using the term replica, Shelby chose "Component Cobra." This separated his cars from all the rest, the riff-raff, and also suited his need to explain (mostly to various DMV authorities) that these cars were only components of a completed car - not the completed car itself, which would be required to adhere at all sorts of current stringent governmental safety regulations"

Ok, you can discuss now

Signed: Only T. Messenger

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Sal,

Here's some notes from the new Registry, page 708,

"Because he (Shelby) did not want his cars devalued by using the term replica, Shelby chose "Component Cobra." This separated his cars from all the rest, the riff-raff, and also suited his need to explain (mostly to various DMV authorities) that these cars were only components of a completed car - not the completed car itself, which would be required to adhere at all sorts of current stringent governmental safety regulations"

Ok, you can discuss now

Signed: Only T. Messenger

If you notice, I didn't mention my current car. Didn't want to open THAT can of worms!

[Jamo]

Well Dan (and others)...what was being discussed was not so much whether certain terminology ought to be used, whether it's for mid-year Shelby Mustangs or the various elements of the Cobra industry.

Had more to do with someone being an asshole.

{I just like to keep things simple...and that's the terminology I use. I don't need a dictionary or a thesaurus.}

Cashburn hit the nail on the head...cheeky basturds came here looking for donations. Leeching off the "riff raff" as much as they have off of the Old Man's accomplishments.

[Road Reptile]

Hi all,
Maybe if people just called what it is then life would be simple again.
Regards R.R.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

He loved the kit cars when he needed your checks to fight for his livelihood...

Excellent point.

Forgetting the Cobra nonsense for a moment, I can't believe Mr. Kopec (cranky pants) wants to "devalue" the 1965 1/2 carryover cars.

I never owned a real Shelby anything, but I've supported the club for three decades. I've never met Mr. Kopec, he may be a super nice guy, a great friend and father, but he comes across as rich and elitist.

[Nedsel]

I've never met Mr. Kopec, he may be a super nice guy, a great friend and father, but he comes across as rich and elitist.[/quote]

I'm just wondering: does that make him a replica of an asshole?