427 Cobra vs. 250LM vs. Corvette Grand Sport

REAL 1 · #1 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 03:13 PM

We all know these three were being feverishly developed to square off against each other in the FIA and ironically none of them made homologation.

What "if" they had squared off in the FIA. Assume SAI also had a 427 Daytona for the longer euro circuits. Which would have come out on top and why?

Thoughts?

Three Peaks · #2 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Considering the Corvette Gran Sport had much better aerodynamics than the Cobra, I would have to go that direction. Introducing the Daytona coupe into the equation makes it a pretty tough call, I think it would be a close call between the Gran Sport and the Daytona coupe.

Bob

zrayr · #3 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 04:43 PM

it all depends on the race course. Any of those three would have an insurmountable advantage if the course played to the cars strengths.

Z. Ray

ZOERA-SC7XX · #4 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 06:29 PM

The Grand Sport had bad aerodynamics, at least initially, and experienced front end lift at speed. The Cobra Daytonas were superior on long, fast tracks, but the Cobra FIA roadsters had it all on the smaller tracks. After Penske and Hall (and later George Wintersteen) got the Grand Sport's fitted with the 427's and tweaked the aero package, they were rocket fast, but were never homologated for FIA GT competition and had to race against prototypes. The Ferrari 250LM was a race-built mid-engine prototype, and probably superior on the long race tracks like LeMans. The 250 GTO's were closer competition to the Cobras and Corvettes, and were quite successful in GT.
Overall (in my opinion), the 250 LM may have been the best of these, being a direct decendent of the successful Ferrari 330P. The Corvette Grand Sport may have been my favorite, and spanked the Cobras a few times, but never got the success they would have had if GM didn't abandon racing. The Cobra Daytona was the most successful, winning the world championship for GT cars in 1965 (backed up by the roadsters).
Introducing the 427's to the Daytonas never happened, as the Super Coupe (Type 65) wasn't actually completed until 1981 and never raced, so that theory is speculative at best. A study of race results will clarify any omissions and scrambled dates. All were great race cars.

Lew Ledyard · #5 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 06:33 PM

According to the Superfans, Ditka would beat all of them.

Jamo · #6 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 12:25 PM

Evan...the 250LM is the odd man out in your comparo. Did you mean the GTO?

Bruce is gonna feel hurt that you left out the Cheetah.

REAL 1 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 05:22 PM

No. I meant 250LM or commonly referred to as 275LM. It was the next step beyond the GTO.

Whats a Cheetah? You mean like that big skinny cat that runs real fast found in Africa?

Jamo · #8 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 05:36 PM

Hey, the 250LM is one of my all-time favorites...my earliest slot car was one.

But comparing two production-based front engined (albeit front, mid-engined) cars to a racing-dedicated mid-engined prototype?

Why not compare a GT40 to a GTO?

TButtrick · #9 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 05:59 PM

If someone offered a 250LM in a kit, I'd seriously consider. Very nice car but not in the same circle as Grand Sport and 427Ssc.

LMH · #10 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 07:27 PM

I'd say the 250LM is going to be the winner in that group. Especially on tracks with a long straight like Mulsanne.
Larry

mr bruce · #11 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 08:29 PM

Jammer,1700 lbs , small block too, what's not to love?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY_Tea4OAJM

DMXF · #12 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 09:52 PM

A big block Cobra (in privateer hands) beat the Ferrari at Silverstone in '66:

RICK LAKE · #13 (**permalink**) 08-14-2009, 04:15 AM

Real 1 I would have to look at a couple of others cars in this fight. First would be a Lister with a 377 SBC. Maseraita birdcage would also be looked at. If gearing being the same and engines being in the 300 inch number, on small tracks without long straights, and the GS being about 300 pounds lighter than the cobra,,,,,,, I pick the cobra by a fender. Add the lister in the mix and Lister wins walking away. Long track would be the Daytona with top end speed over the cobra and GS. Lister has a longer wheel base and better weight ratio to a Daytona. The drag is also less on the Lister. I would give this the winner. For looking cool, Daytona Coupe, Lister, Cobra, and the other car.

Rick L.

ZOERA-SC7XX · #14 (**permalink**) 08-14-2009, 05:50 PM

Looking back at page 124-131 in "Corvette Grand Sport" by Dave Friedman & Lowell Paddock, at Nassau Speed Week in December 1964, the Ken Miles 390 Cobra and the Grand Sport's of Jack Saunders and Roger Penske spanked the 250 LM's of Walt Hansgen and Bob Grossman pretty soundly. Spanked the GT 40's too. Miles took a solid lead before breaking, giving the overall victory to Roger Penske's GS. Penske won all three races that week and promply retired from racing.. The Grand Sport was rocket fast, as was the 390 aluminum block Cobra. The 2.5 liter Ferrari LM was hopelessly outclassed. Penske's win in the Nassau Trophy race was in Jim Hall's Chaparral.

REAL 1 · #15 (**permalink**) 08-16-2009, 08:07 AM

RickLake: The Lister was a one off race car. While very fast, and I agree with you as to its performance, it was built in very limited numbers and was never intended to be sold for public use on public roads or homologated. The Maseriata birdcage, also was a dedicated race car and built soley for that purpose. It was never homologated to my knowledge.

While again the Maser and the Lister were very fast I don't believe they would have competed against the other three in the FIA World Championship series. Let me know if I'm wrong on this.

I chose the 250LM, Grand Sport Corvette and 427 Cobra to compare because it was those three cars that each of the respective manufactures (in the Corvettes case the Skunk works Chevy guys were hoping the guys on the top floor would build the car in sufficient numbers but as we all know the stuffed shirts at the top drove a stake through the heart of the Grand Sport project...sad) was hoping to get off the homologation runway in time for the 1965 FIA World Manufacturers Championship series for GT class.

Also I believe the upped the displacement on the LM so we would have to compare the final iteriation of each as they would have stood at the beginning of the '65 season and as they would have developed during the season. We can kinda take educated guesses where those two end point would be.

In my book the Cobra's with the Daytona's for the track in Europe with the longer straights would take the Cup at the end. It would be a dog fight but my money would be on old Shel' especially if we keep Ken Miles in the mix.

But hey, I'm admit I am biased towards the Cobra.

Anthony · #16 (**permalink**) 08-16-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Looking back at page 124-131 in "Corvette Grand Sport" by Dave Friedman & Lowell Paddock, at Nassau Speed Week in December 1964, the Ken Miles 390 Cobra and the Grand Sport's of Jack Saunders and Roger Penske spanked the 250 LM's of Walt Hansgen and Bob Grossman pretty soundly. Spanked the GT 40's too. Miles took a solid lead before breaking, giving the overall victory to Roger Penske's GS.

From what I remember reading, that was a great story. Miles dogged it intentionally in qualifying, to start between the 2 GS vettes. There is a great picture, at the end of the first lap, of Miles way ahead of the 2 GS vettes and the rest of the pack, him about 30-40 car lengths ahead of everybody else. You see him up close, and looking down the straight, at the beginning of the straight you see the vettes and the reat of the pack all clumped together. Amazing difference in performance/driving . From what I've read about Miles, typical.

rjbh20 · #17 (**permalink**) 08-20-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dcmgt

A big block Cobra (in privateer hands) beat the Ferrari at Silverstone in '66:

Also done at the Monterey Historics several years ago -- Mac Archer in a 427 Cobra starting from the back row passing Rob Walton in the Ferrari on the last corner. One of the best races I've ever seen

RIP Mac