What Should a Paint Job Cost?

[jbr7723]

Well boys, i think I'm getting screwed. My cobra is officially complete, but the final bill is way over what I thought it would be. Granted, it looks nice, but holy toledo!

Before starting they told me verbally and via email probably $6-$8K, worst case $11K. After getting it primed they finally gave me another estimate of 189 hours ($50/hr), + paint and supplies, totalling around $13K. When completed it moved to 234 hours, and $3150 for paint and supplies. (Blue with White stripes).

Final Price... $14,850.00 The job looks good to me, but I'm not an expert, or even a novice for that matter.

As I'm on the road working a lot, I also asked this shop to do the final assembly as well. Estimated 60 hours, final was 205 hours with $1600 in parts. Parts were fine, and no big deal, and I had to ship anoth $1500 of parts to them. But the Labor went from 60 - $3000 all the way to 205 - $10250.00.

I asked for an updated price consistantly, and never received one. I kept getting told it would take a while to put it together. When I finally got it, there are math errors throughout the hand written pages, and then a final sheet that just kind of slaps some numbers together, and then adds on a bunch of hours.

So the estimate in just hours went from 249 to 439. I thought they were giving themselves plenty of room with the 249. What is your opinion? What can, and/or should I do at this point? Granted I can probably cough up the money, but I'm looking for opinions. I have not responded to the final price yet, so I have not asked them to explain yet. Just preparing first.

Also it took them 12 months to finish, the orginal estimate was for 2 months. Also I went with this shop because of one persons reputation, but most times I stopped by there was some young apprentice/laborer guy working on it.

-jbr

[Double Venom]

jbr
As a professional builder of COBRAS AND STREET RODS, ESPECIALLY for a CR's kit, I personally think "they saw you coming"! Of course what I Charge and what "They' charge can't be fairly compared. I know my prices are higher than most but "I" think I do better work and certainly more detailed work than most. The cost of paint and material is right on, but after that I think their prices are way out of line! What city is the car in?

I have seen many posts like yours over the years and have never have I argued someone's else price, but this warrants some type of response.

For what good it is this is my 2-cents worth.
DV

[jwd]

I hope they bought you a drink and kissed you first because you're getting screwed. There's a well known shop in So. Ca. that specializes in Cobras and they do absolutely beautiful work. Their bill would be about 1/2 of what you're being charged.

Jim

[jbr7723]

So would you agree the hours are what is totally out of whack then? In general how many hours would it take you to paint, and then how many for final assembly? Please PM me directly with just the hours if you dont feel comfortable posting on the board. I greatly value your opinion on this matter, and it will help me decide what to do, and at least give me piece of mind evn if I do just cough it up.

With all the math errors, I'm hoping this is a clerical issue in their office as it does look like they overbilled for 60 hours that I can see, at least that saves $3k, but that is probably wishful thinking, my gut says they are trying to see if they can get away with it.

If it is on purpose, I dont know if it is a laborer billing the project week after week with out making much progress, or billing my project while working on others, could be the office/owner over billing, or if it really did just take that long because they ran into issues. You would think they would be giving updates, including numbers and hours, and progress reports.

The car is in MN. I'm wondering what keeps places legally to their bids? How much can they legally move from that number without additional approval?

[mrmustang]

Most I've ever charged to paint a cobra (raw FFR) was $8,500..And that was a tri stage base clear........


Bill S.

[tgitchel]

I just got my ERA back from the painter. Le Mans Blue w/Wimbelton White stripes. All body work from raw ERA mold including installation of hood scoop and "extra" rivets on hood. Cost = $5,000. It's not show quality, but I'm very happy with the result for the price.

[Frank Messina]

You don't provide a lot of specific information, like where you're located, what kind of kit it is, or the extent of the items to be "finished up". So while the number sounds really harsh, it's hard to make a good call as to how badly this guy is really treating you without more info. If you're planning to re-negotiate the final number with him you need to have your facts in order beyond, "I know a guy that would have done this for X".
Frank

[RodKnock]

There's a shop in Northern California that does a lot of work with FFR's. I've never used them, but here's their website:

http://www.streetrodpainter.com/

By the way, if 439 hours is correct for labor, then at $50, that would be $21,950 for labor, unless I'm missing something. Also, what's included in final assembly? Did this include any suspension and/or engine installation? In what area of the country are you located? That would make some difference.

At $15,000 ($12,000 for labor and $3,000 for paint and supplies), if the paint is nearly flawless and show quality, depending on location, and depending on how much body work was needed, and probably a few other caveats, then I don't think that $15,000 is totally outrageous.

Edit: Here in the SF Bay Area, I've heard and seen $15,000 (for paint only) quotes for mid-year Vettes.

[bdeutsch]

Is the body fibreglass or aluminum?

From the bit of looking I've done here in Northern California, prices depend significantly on what quality you want. Concours, street, etc....

Bad business though regarding the surprise you got....just my humble opinion.

[67FEfastback]

I would suggest by what you are saying, you are getting screwed by the bodyshop.

My best advice (after getting ripped off by two body shops) is to get connected via some forum members here with a reputable shop in your area.

Have them stop work on your car (make any excuse that you want - I've changed my mind on engine etc)

Once you decide on a new shop, get your car out of the first shop, even if you have to pay a few hundred extra... It's gonna be worth it - believe me.

Get a written quote

[Double Venom]

Classic Roadster Cobra-No?
A qualified body man in my shop, even as a rookie body man should have no more than 40/60 Hours in the entire car. That's rough in to paint. I paint different than most and I usually have two days (16hrs in actual paint time.) I have no idea how many CR's I have done but it's at the century mark. Compare it to FFR you can almost double the body work-not a slam on FFR by any means but they do take longer to get a very high quality finish to them.

Building a rolling chassis (if they have all the parts available) should be at the utmost, 80 hrs., 120 if you add wiring. Finish completing the car for deliverance, 40 to 60 hours, maybe as much as 80 depending on the quality of the finish wanted or are striving for.

Naaah, If I had gotten what they charge I would have retired 20 years ago!
Bottom line, you should have seen weekly work orders at the least. You also should have given them a time line, a max dollar amount without notifying you of going over for each phase. What a mess.......

DV
Is now the time to see an attorney, before this gets ugly???

[Bryan Anderson]

I have painted many cars over the last 32 years I wish i could charge that kind of Money, I get 4200 for all the body work and a base coat clear coat color sanded and buffed any color with stripes. Bryan B&B

[jbr7723]

Here is the full story...

The body was messed up from CRII, the fiberglass was delaminating in areas (White Gel Coat Body- which is an entirely seperate story). So inititially they had to fix those areas, which is estimate 1.

Estimate 1: Fix Body (49.5 hours, $736 parts/supplies) = 3261.60
Estimate 2: Paint (189 hours, $3150 parts/supplies) = 12884.06
Estimate 3: Final Assembly (60 hours, $450 parts/supplies) = 3480.94
Total: $19626.60 (includes tax)

Final 1: 3261.60
Final 2: 15134.06 (extra 45 hours)
Final 3: 10250.00 (extra 145 hours)

They added in another 190 hours and some misc additional parts/supplies to the final bill, with no written estimates of this.

I did some checking, and in the state of Minnesota they shop is not allowed to charge more than 10% additional from the original quote without providing another written estimate, and getting approval. While I could understand some extra work, 10K is just too much. I'm going to try talking to the owner at this point.

[RodKnock]

So, your total is about $29,000 and your estimates total $20,000? That's "Pebble Beach Concours" territory. I could be a believer at $15,000, but double that? I think you should speak with the owner as you said. I'm thinking you may want to consult an attorney, maybe not this second, but that of course will cost more money.

May I ask how much have you paid so far?

[jbr7723]

They wanted me to send $6K a few months back, but my gut told me not to. It was suppose to be done Memorial weekeing, then 4th of July, and finally Labor day... each time I grabbed a flight and flew back ready to take delivery. They just got it done and are now wanting to now how soon I will be paying them. So to his point I have not paid them anything, granted I already have over 30 in the car.

They are demanding a bank certified check, or a wire transfer. My personal opinion... I'll give them a certified check, but I'm taking delivery at the same time. But with the huge increase in the final bill, I just dont know what to think.

[wreckerboy]

I have built many cobra's never got that kind of money or I would be like Ed living the good life now

[67FEfastback]

If you are going to pick up your car, and pay for it...
can you get in touch with a local (to your bodyshop) cobra specialist, pay them for their time, to inspect your car when you go to pick it up?

It sounds like hardball tactics, if they continually missed delivery dates, and now are in a big rush to get paid a possibly inflated bill.

[RodKnock]

Well, it seems you do have a card or two to play here, since you haven't paid them anything. Certainly, your negotiating position is made stronger with no money having exchanged hands. Not too bright on their part, asking for no money to continue, but what do you care now.

I think consulting your contract or what you have for written documentation is crucial and then I'm kinda curious what you think the value of the car is as it sits? It's complete now correct? The reason I ask is, if the whole thing blows up, one of your "end game" choices (negotiating strategy) could be "Then keep it." While I know no one wants that to happen, I'm sure the shop doesn't either.

[rustyBob]

I say you walk in to his shop"smile on your face" with the bill in your hand "shake his hand" and ask to see the car "bragg on how good it looks" and ask to go over the bill "still smiling"and very calmley try to reach a "settlement"on said bill and let him be the one to get out of control over the high price of said bill then you hit him with a lawyer...........you tried to settle .........he's the one takeing advantage of you.....looks bad on him in court........

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The reason I ask is, if the whole thing blows up, one of your "end game" choices (negotiating strategy) could be "Then keep it."

If I'm the shop, that's what I'm hoping he'll do. Coupled with the fact that deep down in the agreement there's a "storage fee" clause that charges him $100/day on all autos not picked up and paid for within 10 days of notification of completion of work.