Looking For An Alloy CSX4000? Here Ya Go

[Excaliber]

In the years to come there may well be discussions about the pedigree of various continuation CSX's, Air CSX, Duplicate CSX, fraud CSX, Twin CSX's, CSX body on a SPF chassis (oh you would be SO busted). History has a tendency to repeat itself...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

LOL, did you just search police me??

Of course not. You know WAY more than me. It was for the benefit for everyone else. By now, we should all know the similarities between Shelby/AC and SAI/HST/Hi-Tech/Kirkham/etc. Sorry Sal.

[What'saCobra?]

Historians also have a tendency to repeat themselves.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

You mean, like originals?

No intention of starting a religious flame war here - from the scorch marks on the walls, it's not the first time.

I'll simply point out that, once upon a time, Jim Davis actually drew the Garfield comic strip. For the last two decades, he's been an "executive cartoonist" while legions of drones turn out the strips, books, posters, etc. As a cartoon aficionado, that really ruins it for me - I'll take the work turned out by one artist, day after day, knowing he or she sweated blood to do it.

In the same way, there's perhaps a difference between distributing the load in a real racing season, and cynically rubber-stamping one's name on things in return for a check. In the end, $20-25k for Unca Carroll's blessing wasn't worth it to me. Nor do I think CSX4000's will ever appreciate like originals; they'll just remain some fraction of that premium pricier than other quality builds.

But no diss on any 4000 or its owner, none at all. This isn't even a chocolate-vanilla-strawberry world; it's 31 Flavors and they all have admirers.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Gunner

No intention of starting a religious flame war here - from the scorch marks on the walls, it's not the first time.

I'll simply point out that, once upon a time, Jim Davis actually drew the Garfield comic strip. For the last two decades, he's been an "executive cartoonist" while legions of drones turn out the strips, books, posters, etc. As a cartoon aficionado, that really ruins it for me - I'll take the work turned out by one artist, day after day, knowing he or she sweated blood to do it.

In the same way, there's perhaps a difference between distributing the load in a real racing season, and cynically rubber-stamping one's name on things in return for a check. In the end, $20-25k for Unca Carroll's blessing wasn't worth it to me. Nor do I think CSX4000's will ever appreciate like originals; they'll just remain some fraction of that premium pricier than other quality builds.

But no diss on any 4000 or its owner, none at all. This isn't even a chocolate-vanilla-strawberry world; it's 31 Flavors and they all have admirers.

Well, your Jim Davis example is a good theory, but still not quite the same thing. Shelby didn't manufacture the cars, AC did. Then shipped to Shelby where people Carroll HIRED to finish the cars, built them to customer specs. Carroll himself never really built cars. And, that's really just comp cars, as the street 427s were built entirely at AC, and shipped overseas to Shelby as finished running cars.

That's not to take anything away from the glory and history of original cars, but is that so different than a current CSX? Built by an outside company hired by Carroll to build him cars to sell. And since modern standards don't allow Shelby to sell a finished car, instead of the roller coming from AC and being finished at Shelby, now the rollers go to Shelby dealers to be finished (or the customer if they choose). And in reality, modern CSXs are more true Shelbys than orginals (of course original owners would never admit that, and I probably wouldn't either if I owned an original), because every part on the car is done to Shelby's specs. Shelby is in 100% control of the new cars.

Oh, and as for CSX4000 appreciation, they absolutely do appreciate. And they are the only non-60s Cobra that does. Before the economy took a hit, finished glass cars were selling for close to 100k, and finished alloys were hitting 150k. Currently they've dropped to selling for about what they cost to build, but yet most other brands of Cobra have dropped to considerably less than the cost to finish.

Just my 2 cents of course

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

And, that's really just comp cars, as the street 427s were built entirely at AC, and shipped overseas to Shelby as finished running cars.

Oh no...there's new history being written

[RodKnock]

Evan and Trevor can't be far behind.

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Oh, and as for CSX4000 appreciation, they absolutely do appreciate. And they are the only non-60s Cobra that does. Before the economy took a hit, finished glass cars were selling for close to 100k, and finished alloys were hitting 150k. Currently they've dropped to selling for about what they cost to build, but yet most other brands of Cobra have dropped to considerably less than the cost to finish.

I usually watch from the sidelines on these types of threads while you all have lots of fun. Sal's comment is exactly why I decided on the CSX car, that was mostly fabricated and assembled by staff at SAI, while the body was built nearby at a prison, it was a "Shelby" to me. Ever since I saw the first Cobra blasting down Whittier Blvd coming from Dean Moon's in the early sixties, I wanted one. Can't afford the Shelby originals so when they started making them again in the late 90's that would be Registry eligible I thought I had a chance to get close.

So even though my fiberglas body may have black and white prison stripes and serial numbers on the underside, it looks like what I wanted and figured I would not lose too much of the investment because of where it was built and by whom. Those are documented facts backed by photographs that were important to me which, like many others on this and other threads have said, will tend to hold the value more than some others. I don't care about debate on the "real" issue. I walk away from that. The CSX built in Las Vegas at SAI is the one I wanted.

And by the way, the upcharge for a CSX car is not a matter of badging, it's a matter of parts and assembly. I couldn't be happier with the way my car is put together and I'm pretty mechanically inclined and fairly fussy. I've seen and crawled around lots of CSX 3000 series cars over the years, and mine is pretty close if not exact in most places. I drive it everywhere (8,000 mi), hasn't been on a trailer since I shipped it from TX, has rock chips, I really enjoy it and I don't cover it....

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Oh no...there's new history being written

Is that not true? I definitely don't want to be posting improper info.

[madmaxx]

I am thinking about a fake 1955 Becker Porsche Spyder, anyone know about them? Pretty cool looking little cars weighing in at 1300lbs with 180 hp engine for about $30k. I

[RodKnock]

Tom, your fussy and don't cover it? A mechanic is mechanically inclined, you're an artist.

Mad, for the record, the name is Beck, not Becker, Spyders. I think they're nice cars, BUT, if you think replica Cobras are shunned by the original CSX crowd, just wait until the Porschephiles get a load of your replica Porsche. Talk about being an outcast.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Tom, your fussy and don't cover it? A mechanic is mechanically inclined, you're an artist.

Mad, for the record, the name is Beck, not Becker, Spyders. I think they're nice cars, BUT, if you think replica Cobras are shunned by the original CSX crowd, just wait until the Porschephiles get a load of your replica Porsche. Talk about being an outcast.

Very true! As a recovering Porschephile, I can tell you that's true.
Larry

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by LMH

Very true! As a recovering Porschephile, I can tell you that's true.
Larry

What is that difference I heard about between a porcupine and a Porsche?

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Is that not true? I definitely don't want to be posting improper info.

Sorry Sal, go ahead and edit your post, we won't tell.

[What'saCobra?]

There was an early 80's fellow in the LA basin that got plenty of grief from the local porsche club when he did one of the very early 1973-ish RS copy/conversions, using a real but rather ratty porsche. Although today they are much more popular and welcome (originals being awfully expensive), at the time they were verbotten by his betters and other cognizanti. He was sorely angered.

The Spyder Becks were newish at that time and he was so torqued at his treatment, he did an absolutely beautiful 550 knock-off with a REAL porsche 4-cam engine! i don't think it was either easy or cheap.

You could not believe how un-hinged the REAL porsche people became when they discovered the completely un-authorized and sinful application of that masterpiece (if very very busy) engine. i never saw the particular car, so cannot comment on the installation, but he was pretty good, if not a professional.

Although the engines were not as wildly priced as today, they were still very rare and special. Seemed to the believers that he was to be ex-communicated from the faith, if not boiled in coal-tar.

He thought it was all hilariously funny and claimed it was a great driver, although he criticized that the engine was more than a little temperamental and difficult with which to live. Not so long afterwards he got a nice offer on the engine alone and replaced it in the Spyder with a hot SCCA special 4 cylinder.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I dunno. I thought about a CSX4000 Shelby, but IMVVVVHO there's no such thing. Having various builders put them together for CS badging is bogus.

Buy a Kirkham if you want alloy. Buy an ERA or SPF if you want a solid model at lower cost than real tin. But I think the $20k for the pasted-on Shelby name is wasted. YMMV.

Are you suggesting the the aluminum CSX4000 is just adding a CSX number to a Kirkham for a $20k premium? It is not that simple. The CSX has Shelby suspension components, while the Kirkham has billet aluminum suspension pieces. The Shelby is painted, the Kirkham is not. ... Etc.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Are you suggesting the the aluminum CSX4000 is just adding a CSX number to a Kirkham for a $20k premium? It is not that simple. The CSX has Shelby suspension components, while the Kirkham has billet aluminum suspension pieces.

That's right. In addition to spending more, you also get inferior components.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

So, I guess this would be out of the question for you?

You original owners, what are you thinking, using your Cobras like daily driver cars.

I've heard that original Cobra tops may dry rot if they have not been used for decades and that they require an advanced degree to put up.

[Excaliber]

It's not that cut and dried. You can spec a variety of suspension components on the Kirkham. From billet (most popular) to original (BIG dollars). Shelby specs vary from that, but it's a tough call to say which is "better". It all depends on what you want and are willing to pay. Is Shelby workmanship better than Kirkham? I wouldn't bet on that, both are of excellent quality. Many prefer a non painted alloy body so that could be a plus not a negative.

One thing's for sure, you won't get the Shelby name with a Kirkham and no matter what, that fact alone DOES add value to the car.

I really like the spec's on Sal's CSX car. It's very true to the original spirit and soul of a Cobra. For some of us that is a huge factor. In general, it seems to me, your more likely to find a Shelby closer to original specs than a Kirkham.

Sal's car is for sale but this is not a "plug", it's just recognizing reality. Let's assume Sal's car was a Kirkham and the same price as another Kirkham for sale, with billet this and that and more modern whatever. Hands down I would choose Sal's car, (not to mention the coveted CSX number).

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

One thing's for sure, you won't get the Shelby name with a Kirkham and no matter what, that fact alone DOES add value to the car.

Only to morons.