Hose fittings AN Plumbing Flow rates

[Ant]

Designing my oil system plumbing and being dry sump there is a lot of plumbing, with components like oil cooler thermostat, remote filter etc.

I am using Aeroquip hose and full flow fittings. There are a few 90 degree fittings to keep it tidy etc, maybe in some areas I could get away with 45 degree fittings or even straight but the plumbing will have big bends in place and take up more room.
I am wondering if its worth trying to reduce the fitting angles to reduce flow loss, and if it really makes much difference with full flow fittings.

Running a Dailey engineering oil system I am using large -16 for the oil line to pump and scavenge to tank, the rest is -12 to T/stat, cooler, Filter, engine.

[vector1]

Bill and I were doing some troubleshooting on my setup, reduced oil pressure thing. He was wanting to know the oil pressure prefilter and at the inlet of the engine.

While you're plumbing, you might incorporate a fitting to take pressure prior to all your accessories and maybe another after prior to the engine.

[ERA Chas]

Forty-fives where ever you can would not suck. It adds up. You're good with -16 and -12.

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally Posted by vector1

Bill and I were doing some troubleshooting on my setup, reduced oil pressure thing. He was wanting to know the oil pressure prefilter and at the inlet of the engine.

While you're plumbing, you might incorporate a fitting to take pressure prior to all your accessories and maybe another after prior to the engine.

Dailey should put a pressure tap on the pump at each stage. Scavenge stages as well.

We always put them in the pumps after we got them from whatever vendor.

We used each tap on the dyno and once telemetry got going we ran them all the time. Great help in monitoring the life state of the engine and gave real time warning in case of a problem.

Of course we used pressure taps at the back end of plumbing runs, and multiple engine galley taps as well.

As far as the fittings question Ant, We always tried to limit items that produced a big pressure drop on the scavenge side. (like 90's or thermostats)

We did run oil coolers on the scavenge side on FA cars (Cos BDD engine) as we had so much trouble with coolers starting to fail at the fins. It often allowed us to finish a race as the pressure was so low that the leak was limited and we had enough in the tank to make it.


The pressure side is not so critical.

Have you been given a oil-flow map for your engine? Helps to know so you can calculate the flow requirements.

How about a coolant map? Used to really piss me off when the engine builders would not provide these as it made the radiator sizing, plumbing and air flow impossible to design.

[Ant]

Vector1
I have an oil pressure take off on the oil filter just before main oil gallery and one at the rear of engine.

Richard, I am running a Peterson filter on the scavenge which apart from Straight fittings only has a 180 and a 90 within the 5 foot length to Oil Tank. I was hoping that AQ full flow mandrel style fittings wouldnt be much of an issue for pressure loss as I see race cars that are riddled with 90's, 120's etc fittings..

The oil cooler and t/stat are on the pressure side, I don't like oil coolers and think I will bypass it with a double male fitting in the hose line, unless racing on a hot summers day.

I haven't been given an oil flow map or coolant flow map, just done what I have seen round the tracks, club cobra etc, fitted a custom made PWR radiator 2 x 1.25" row, with my aluminium engine I am hoping it will provide more than ample cooling. You are right it would help to know for calculating flow requirements, there will be a bit of experimentation with the Dailey pump, at this stage we have gone for big pressure gears, but can change to smaller gears, and we have different pressure springs to try if needed. I will try and keep a reasonable idle oil pressure while trying to keep shafted hp loss to a minimum by changing pump gear size.

[Dominik]

If you can, I eliminate all 90 deg bends (not elbows), if you are using any. The bends may cause cavitation. To maintain laminar flow any angle (turn in direction) should be smooth.

What is the saying: one 90 elbow causes the same pressure drop as 3 ft of line?

Carrol Smith's book on plumbing has some good advice!

[Ant]

Richard & guys all good advice.

We have pressure taps on the pump pressure after pump and end of line, post pump also connected to a warning light if there is a drive belt issue.
Have since got rid of the oil cooler thermostat.

Don't have an oil flow map or coolant map, I guess I have done my designing from engine builders recommendations and information from the net, and what I know has worked in the past. The will be a bit of trial and hopefully not too much error.

Cooling, my engine/system is similar to John Marseys so John kindly has given me his cooling plan. With aluminium engine using a large 2 x 1.25" row custom radiator, hoping that size will keep it cool.

Another issue some guys have had with Fuel hose is permeation using unleaded pump gas, there is E30 and E85 the 98 pump gas has no ethanol but uses these aromatics etc, I am curious to know if you guys have gone to teflon lined hose for the fuel system.

Originally Posted by Richard Hudgins

Dailey should put a pressure tap on the pump at each stage. Scavenge stages as well.

We always put them in the pumps after we got them from whatever vendor.

We used each tap on the dyno and once telemetry got going we ran them all the time. Great help in monitoring the life state of the engine and gave real time warning in case of a problem.

Of course we used pressure taps at the back end of plumbing runs, and multiple engine galley taps as well.

As far as the fittings question Ant, We always tried to limit items that produced a big pressure drop on the scavenge side. (like 90's or thermostats)

We did run oil coolers on the scavenge side on FA cars (Cos BDD engine) as we had so much trouble with coolers starting to fail at the fins. It often allowed us to finish a race as the pressure was so low that the leak was limited and we had enough in the tank to make it.


The pressure side is not so critical.

Have you been given a oil-flow map for your engine? Helps to know so you can calculate the flow requirements.

How about a coolant map? Used to really piss me off when the engine builders would not provide these as it made the radiator sizing, plumbing and air flow impossible to design.

[philminotti]

Here's my opinion. Run -12 line and use fittings that are convenient and tidy. While my system isn't nearly as complicated as a dry sump system, i do have a oil cooler divertor valve plumbed with a couple of 130 deg bends as well as 90s and 45s all over the place. I have fine pressure and flow. You'll be fine. Jmho

[Morris]

Ant

I took the oil thermostat out of the system after we ran it .....it is nothing but a maze of oil lines and fittings....and the benefit was very small.....we were using a Canton thermostat....and 1 each 90*degree fitting is worth 10 feet of hose........and we had 4 each 90* -12 fittings just on the thermostat.

Morris

[philminotti]

That's true Morris, but your car was an honest-to-god race car that needed every advantage for engine survival under conditions that probably very few cobras have ever approached. BTW, i loved that car and your build log should be required reading for any gearhead...