Question;What's the average 427's 1/4mile time?

[Hotfingrs]

The Vettes are in the 500-600 horse range, but they run a lot of rear gear...4:10 and higher. With that 6 speed tranny they can get away with it. I run 3:08 with 3 speed auto.

[Karl Bebout]

Hotfingrs Jack, do you even get into 3rd gear? I'm running 30" tall 345.55.15 drag ta's and a 3.50 gear and I was still only about 5200 RPM through the lights when I went 1.5 60' and 10.74@124. Think I could have been a bit quicker but ran up against the rev limiter which flattened me out a little. I just run a flat tappet hydralic cam so I don't try for big RPMs, I like to shift at 6300, when I don't have my head up my a$$. I guess it all gets to newby's question--figure out what you want the car to do. I blew off a bunch of Cobras on the drag strip that would totally clean my clock on a road course, and it was all because of traction and suspension, and maybe a little bit of more power. If you're going to drag race, go with parts that won't break when you hook up. A 9", four link fills the bill. Drag TAs, ET streets, even Hoosiers are a minimum. If the tires bog you down, make more power. These things are an E-ticket ride when you pays your money.

[Excaliber]

Marcos, I beleive your right about the weight distribution, more like 50/50 give or take for both Cobra and Vette.

Gearing makes a HUGE difference in drag racing. Seems to me the Dragon Snakes (289-427) were running EXTREME low ratios, 5 something rear gear. Not to mention extreme RPM, 7000-7500. Sheet metal screws through the rim into the tire bead to hold the tires to the rims, heat treated gears and they STILL "broke stuff"!

The Viper I reffered to ealier is running 4.90 or something like it rear gear. I asked him about "breaking stuff". He said no problem, got lots of spare parts! He does, I don't!

[marcocsx3121]

The low 10 second 'Vettes generally run 3.90 gears with the 427 -441 cubic inch LS6 motors. Like the Vipers, they do break transmission and other driveline parts.

[sirelesar]

Thanks for the post guys, I am playing at the track just for fun, and like to compare.

I am running a 302 Naturally Aspirated motor on 275/40/17 street tires thru a T-5 w/ 3.73 rear end. My best time was 12.59 at 108.5. My weight distribution is 47/53 (I know, it surprised me too) at 2688# w/ me in it (big-ol 245# guy) and wet. I would like to see 12.3's just to mess with Hal but I think that 12.4's are more realistic with the 302. I feel that I am not pushing the limit on the traction once I am off the line. More power could be used in 2/3/4 gears. First gear is a blink. It seems that the stroked 351's are able to get their extra time because of this greater ability to run closer to the ragged edge all the way thru the gears. Doing it all again, that's probably the way I'd go for road course and non-slick dragging. I am avoiding the slicks right now, cause this T-5 would most likely snap.

Darren

[sirelesar]

Clois,
Do you know your weight distribution with the 428? How about with your old 302?
Thanks,
Darren

[grumpy]

marcoscsx2131,
No matter, an FE will produce to 1400 HP on gas w/ NOS, where do you stop?
Whether Chevy, Ford or what, if you take a small block NASCAR at even steven rules, they will be within a few HP at the range desired.
That said with the new restrictions for instance in NASCAR, we will see engine built expressly for "a track" to give them what they need on what surface/tire/torque/?? for a specific.
It will be 2005, the year of the NASCAR engine building companies!
By the way, if Chevy was as tough as you note, then they would own the SS/SA class and such, not the old FE powered FORDS that usually dominate the big boy stock classes.
grumpy

[marcocsx3121]

I did not intend to start a general Ford Vs. Chevy war with my comments. Let me repeat: I was a Cobra/FE owner/tuner/driver before most of the members of this forum got to kindergarten, and I love the Ford 427. My only point was that IF the current crop of FEs really make the power numbers that are being posted, these 2500-2800 pound cars should show quarter mile trap speeds in the mid-130s. The LS6 427 Corvettes do while weighing over 3500 pounds with driver.

[Hotfingrs]

Can't seem to find this SS/SA class

http://www.nhra.org/stats/indexes_ss.html

So exactly where are these so called "big boy classes" that Ford is dominating??

BTW here's a link to current SS record holders

www.nhra.com/stats/ss_record.html

Let's do the math
Chev-14
Pont-5
Ply-3
Dodge-3
Ford-2
Old-1
Buick-1

Sure looks dominating to me.....

[Hal Heindel]

Excaliber,

You're absolutely correct about the gearing: CSX 2019 ran with 5.14 gears and turned 7,500 RPM with an Iskenderian cam. The stock hi-performance cam was good for up to 7,000.

The most common problem encountered by both Randy Berry, the original owner of 2019, and Ed Hedrick who owned the Costilow & Larson car, was rear end breakage. No complaints about the motor or tranny.

Hal

[Excaliber]

I go to the drags here, I haven't seen any Vettes running a 130 lately. A "427" Vette, bored, stroked and built to that level is a pretty serious car. A "high dollar" car! Your "average" Viper won't be in the 10's either, and yet THEY run 500 horse off the showroom floor! Flywheel horse,,, of course.

We have some "pretty serious" Cobras here on the club, but they, like the "built" Vettes and the Vipers, are in the minority.

It's pretty impressive to me that the "majority" of replicas, big or small block DO run in the 12's. Without being set up for "drag racing". Just drive down there and "run what you brung", you WILL be in the 12's.

Those people running 10 sec 130 mph Vettes, Vipers and Cobras set out to do just that! They spent the money, they focused on the drag stip.

I see VERY FEW Cobra owners "that serious" about turning 10's in the 1/4 with their replica. It's just not something the "average" Cobra guy is interested in.

Maybe we love our cars to much to abuse them? And Lord knows most of us have all ready spent more than we wanted to!

The guys I see running "built" Vettes and Vipers have pretty deep pockets. While they "like" their car they don't have anywhere near the "emotional" investment the average Cobra owner has. If they want to go faster, they spend more money. If they break the car, they hire someone to fix it.

Most of us do our own work, we don't WANT to break stuff.

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that if I were to get "serious" my car WOULD run 10's and 130 with no additional engine work required.

I have the motor out right now. I'm going with a "milder" cam and dropping the compression. I'll never see 11's again, and it's OK! I figure I'll loose about 150 horse. I'm pretty sure 500 will still be enough to challenge the "typical" Vette or Viper!

[Hotfingrs]

Ernie, It breaks down to the old adage.....How fast can you afford to go $$$

You did have it right when you said... Those people running 10 sec 130 mph Vettes, Vipers and Cobras set out to do just that!

I know that was true for me.

[marcocsx3121]

No argument that the big displacement, late model Chevy motors that run those ten second time slips are expensive, but no more so than a strong Keith Craft FE. As for those 'Vettes being purpose built drag cars, absolutely not. I know because I have a twin of one of them, and other than drag tires, it is totally practical, runs fine on 93 octane gas, and even gets good mileage (high teens in a mix of highway and city driving). Even my wife and daughter drive it on occasion. My total investment, which includes around $4k in brake and suspension upgrades, is less than I would have in a Superformance or ERA Cobra with a good motor (OK, I admit that I bought the 'Vette used)

I will undoubtedly be back in a neo-Cobra some time in 2005, and I really, really want them to be the fastest things on the street. I still have sweaty dreams about CSX 3121. But now that the bar has been raised, the performance data of the current crop is a little disappointing.

[Dave Rodak]

Originally posted by marcocsx3121

My only point was that IF the current crop of FEs really make the power numbers that are being posted, these 2500-2800 pound cars should show quarter mile trap speeds in the mid-130s. The LS6 427 Corvettes do while weighing over 3500 pounds with driver.

My Keith Craft 427 / 527 has run:

10.23 @ 132
10.43 @ 139
10.87 @ 131

Originally posted by Hotfingers


It breaks down to the old adage.....How fast can you afford to go $$$

You did have it right when you said... Those people running 10 sec 130 mph Vettes, Vipers and Cobras set out to do just that!

I know that was true for me.

True for me also. You don't get "fast" inexpensively or by accident and it usually requires some cash to keep going fast.


Dave

[marcocsx3121]

Indeed nice runs, but did you say FIVE twenty seven? That is one big motor!

[Hotfingrs]

Marco don't forgot the car is also 800-1000 lbs less than the Vette. Still nice times though, compared to others here.

[Excaliber]

Marcos,,,, nice Vette you got there.

But it's still a Vette.

2005 coming soon! Good gas mileage? Bah humbug, Cobras are about "Smiles to the Gallon", but you knew that all ready.

After all when you get 6 mpg (like me) it BETTER be about "smiles".

[Larry N Johnson]

As a point of reference, the original CSX car as tested ran a 12.2 for a car against the 427 Vette 12.8 for a magazine test


Like most here, I have a lot of heatbeats in my 65 FFR roadster and it is not a drag race car at all. It weighs 2247 lb, split 45% front and 55% rear. Using a factory stock 1995 Cobra engine, a EFI 5.0, with street tires (295/50R15 Goodyear Eagle GT II), 3.27 rear IRS, we ran a 13.087 first night trying. Traction was good after 2nd gear (1.9 sec. 60 foot), experience was lacking; maybe next time break into the 12's. Car pic, see Blue Roadster & Mt Hood

May try drag radials combined with better techniqure for 0.4 or so if lucky.

The BB cars have so much more torque that traction is probably a bigger issue than a small block car.

[WayneE]

You guys running in the 11s with replicas, what safety equipment do you run? Do you need a true 5 point rollbar? Any pics?

I'm in the market for a replica, but would like to take it to the dragstrip and run faster than 11.50 in it. I'm just not sure what safety equipment is required in open cars like these.

Thanks!

[Excaliber]

IT depends on your local track what they require. The local track here DOES reference some kind of National "book" as to times and what is required.

Under 12 sec (for my track) was:
1. Roll bar, single hoop on my Cobra was fine.
2. Nomex "fire" jacket (about $80).
3. Are restraints due to open cockpit (about $30).

Helmet, long pants, shoes are required for everybody. Hey, this is Hawaii. Shorts, flip flops and T-shirts are standard issue. So they actually had to enforce a "dress code" and turn away some drivers every night!

In the 10's? I couldn't run here, requires a full roll cage.