Accusump E.C.P valve or Manual?

[Mac VABCH]

I am trying to determine which way to go. What are the disadvantages to a manual valve and EPC (Electronic pressure control) valve. Is the manual more effective or is the EPC. I understand that the EPC is automatic if you wire it with the ignition but does it react fast enough for a road racing application. My car is a track car only it hasn't been registered in 2 years now so is it just a money and convenience difference?

Thanks for any suggestions...

[RICK LAKE]

Mac I use mine and a peroil luber to start. I also run with it on dueing my auro cross races and road racing. I G-turns and brakeing kill the oil flow in the motor. If you are really going to do alot of racing, go drysump. The accusump is cheap insurance to protect the motor. I run mine off a switch on the dash. You just have to remember to refill the accusump after the race for the next start of the motor. Accusump has saved my motor twice. Broken rocker shafts. Use a relay of 30 amps if you go electric and a 20 amp fuse. Rick L.

[Mac VABCH]

Rick,

My next motor will be a dry sump. What do you mean by "remember to refill the accusump after the race for the next start of the motor". If you use and electric shouldn't the ECV fill the accusump when oil pressure is at operating pressure. If you kill the power to the ECV before you kill the ignition shouldn't it hold the oil ready for you to preoil, or just wire the ECV into the ignition. If I'm wrong please advise... thanks for the input...Mac

[Tom Wells]

Mac,

If your car is track only, a manual Accusump setup should be fine.

Refilling it is just "rev the engine up a little for a minute to get the oil pressure up to normal, then close the valve." This will fill the unit. You can verify by looking at the Accusump's pressure gauge to see if it reflects your usual oil pressure.

If you go electric, which is the setup I use, you basically exchange the ball valve for a pressure switch and solenoid valve. The pressure switch determines the minimum opening pressure for refilling the engine from the Accusump.

I use the electric version with a dash switch. It's plenty fast enough for the track. It's just a bit more wiring and parts; mine is a street/track car so the convenience seemed like a good idea at the time!

Tom

[Flyin_Freddie]

I have an electric valve which is controlled by the ignition switch...."On" is anytime the ignition switch is on. I drive my car quite a bit on tracks, and have never seen a problem where the electric valve didn't react quickly enough. I've video taped several track sessions, and never seen a situation where the electric valve didn't do its job. Besides, I don't like to have to remember to recharge the Accusump accumulator before shutting down the engine.

My advice is to go all electric and forget about it.

If you track your car a lot, I might also suggest a Canton Road Race oil pan to help keep oil around the oil pickup. Cheap insurance...

[Mac VABCH]

Everyone thanks for the input I think I have enough info to go with the electric..I have been running a Canton RR oil pan for a few years now, and really like there products...thanks again Mac

[Tom Wells]

Mac,

The Canton Road Race pan IS the reason I ended up buying the Accusump. The RR pan would not keep my oil pressure up during spirited cornering. After many long discussions with Canton we figured out their 460 pan doesn't really work for road racing... Maybe their 302 or 351 pan does, I don't know.

It struck me as an odd coincidence that the company that made the RR pan also is the same company that makes the Accusump.

</sarcasm off>

BTW, Aviaid says their pan does work. I was told this after I bought the Accusump so haven't tried it.

Tom

[RICK LAKE]

Tom Wells If you have the windage tray you can over fill the motor by a 1-1.5 quarts over. The crank will not hit the oil any more than normal. I have done this for the last 6 years with overfill. If helped with the high g turns and kept the pressure from droping to the 30's in psi. My accusump works as backup. I am not sure how much oil is used from it on racing. Better to have too much that none. Rick Lake Is the inside of your block painted or polished smooth? If not then there is 2-3 quarts flying around in the upper end of the motor. I also run a HVHP oil pump with 100 psi spring.

[RICK LAKE]

Mac VABCH Mac I don't want to give the wrong info. This is why a use the switch and relay and not a direct Ign curcuit. As far as the power and filling the 3 quart tank, I rev the motor up to about 2,200 rpms on the cool down lap and this gives the accusump 65-70 psi of pressure to fill the tank. After 30 seconds I turn the switch off. Ready for the next session. The easiest way to to put REMINDERS on the dash, (paper notes). Before, during, and cool down. If you do this everytime after 4-5 times it becomes automatic. Mine are simple, #1 preoil motor. #2 race smart, NO manhandling the car. #3 leave the walls alone, stay off the grass. #4 cool down you and the car. #5 refill accu tank. # 6 nice job. #7 when in doubt, see line 2. Rick L.

[Mac VABCH]

Rick,

Good advise I wish more people would follow #2....Thanks Mac

[Tom Wells]

Rick,

There is a scraper built in to the Canton 460 pan. On this model, if you overfill the pan it makes the loss of oil pressure problem worse! BTW, when Canton says seven quarts, they mean including the oil filter. Their tech support recommends running a quart low!

I've had the pan off, checked to proper location of the pickup, no leaks in the mounting or pickup tube, proper operation of the trap doors surrounding the pickup. Still no joy.

BTW if you use a higher pressure or volume oil pump on a 460 you have a higher risk of distributor drive gear/cam gear failure.

Good advice, your #2 rule!

Tom

[bobcowan]

Keep in mind there are two differant electric valves. 24-271 is the one to use for road racing.

[RICK LAKE]

Tom Wells Tom that's a bull story with the Canton guys. We have 2 different motors, My FE motor has longer side skirts than your 460. My oil returns from the heads are smaller. The ONLY time I everyheard a company tech say to run a motor underfull was 1/4 mile racing. Canton, Moroso, Aviaid, and Millidon all say this is OK. They are not paying for your motor to get rebuilt. Think about this, If this was OK, everyone running autocross and roadracing would be running 5 quarts of oil instead of 7-13 quarts. As far as the distributor driving the oil pump, there are 2 thing to take into account, first is having the right gear combo between the 2 gears. This depends on what material the cam gear is made out of and matching it to the correct distributor gear. I have seen many times over the wrong matchups. Harden shafts to drive the oil pumps are very important, IMO. The other thing is having a steady flow of oil going on the contact point between where the 2 gears meet. This is a machine shop extra. Knowing how much oil to spray in this area. 8 years of racing and my gear was just fine. I am running the composite gear to see how well this works out. Tom, it's the little things that help and save a motor to run along time. Will a HVHP pump put more stress on the gears, YES. But if you know what to do to slow down or stop this problem, the issue becomes mute. I would have to look at an oiling system in your motor. I am sure there is a way to lube this contact point all the time. Rick L.

[Tom Wells]

Rick,

I verified the "quart low" myself. The problem got less when I did that, but not by enough.

There is a mod for the distributor gear oiling for the 460 here: http://www.highflowdynamics.net/?

Pick the top selection on the left side of the page.

For some reason the oil pump drive system on the 460 is different from the other Fords in that it is more frangible (always wanted to use that word on CC) than most other engines and if you are building one of these you need to pay close attention to this area.

I'll do this mod on the next engine for sure!

In the meantime, once I got the oiling issues under control (read: Accusump and correct distributor gear location), I have 22,000 + road and track miles on this engine and it's still OK!

Tom

[RICK LAKE]

Tom Wells Tom I'm not a pro builder but been there,done that with different motors. Thanks for the site on the oiling mode. Here's the thing, 1/16 of an inch is hugeYou want to spray the area not flood and loose 10-20psi of pressure. On my motors, for the timing chain to get lube, .015" with the hole looking like a spray nozzle. This fans the oil out. Over time the hole will get bigger but this was a new motor to 50K. Oil for the distributor is about the same.020" Same thing, spary the oil but not flood the area. I'm not sure what your FRANGIBLE issue is?? Location, oil flow, Oil shaft issues, or just the old engineering sillyness?? I know you run 1 quart low. That scares the crap out of me. Different motors different modes. Rick

[Tom Wells]

Rick,

I personally do run one quart low, but after I installed the Accusump I fill the engine up to spec

Good info on the hole size for oiling BTW!

Tom

[Aspmann]

Rick Lake,
Tom is correct I have the same motor and pan. Canton could not correct the problem and had me purchase a accusump.
Canton sucks!!!!! They have a problem with that pan design and won't fix it.