Roush Engine problems

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

You might want to invest in an inexpensive dye kit and light. Does it smoke when you drive it?

Also, when the motor was originally delivered and how many miles are on it? Is there any possible way to work back through the original buyer (i.e. if they are a Roush dealer, they might be able to get a response).

Lastly, do you think the cut out has to do with the FI? Maybe the FI electronics need to be swapped out. Has someone with FI expertise diagnosed the problem?

My tale is described in some detail elsewhere. I bought it at the Barrett Jackson auction in January. Alfredo did tell me that the previous owner had thought it was plagued with electrical problems and I do believe the FI control system is the cause of the rough running. I had it on a dyno and it was running real rich. The AFR matched from the Dyno and the FI controller, but it turned out to be TWO loose plug wires (as described above), so I'm replacing the 90* plug wires with 45* wires to keep tension off. We'll see. Sometimes it's simple things. It's definitely running rich - when I let off the accelerator I get small backfires from the pipes.

As for oil, it gives a little puff of smoke when it starts, but so does my new Mustang. I also think it might be one of the valve covers leaking but haven't gotten there. I agree about the dye kit. That's on the list. The engine takes 11+qts!

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

My tale is described in some detail elsewhere. I bought it at the Barrett Jackson auction in January. Alfredo did tell me that the previous owner had thought it was plagued with electrical problems and I do believe the FI control system is the cause of the rough running. I had it on a dyno and it was running real rich. The AFR matched from the Dyno and the FI controller, but it turned out to be TWO loose plug wires (as described above), so I'm replacing the 90* plug wires with 45* wires to keep tension off. We'll see. Sometimes it's simple things. It's definitely running rich - when I let off the accelerator I get small backfires from the pipes.

As for oil, it gives a little puff of smoke when it starts, but so does my new Mustang. I also think it might be one of the valve covers leaking but haven't gotten there. I agree about the dye kit. That's on the list. The engine takes 11+qts!

The dye kit works really well, but it doesn't always isolate the root cause. For example, I had a problem with a leaking oil galley plug and they ended up needing to pull the trans out to fix. I did isolate an oil leak on a valve cover gasket that was causing a mess.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

The engine takes 11+qts!

WHY?

Is it a dry sump? If not, what pan is on it? No wet sump FE (either drag race or road race) should require more than 7 1/2-8 1/2 qts regardless of what Roush recommends.

Your system is over filled and its pushing it's way out. To say nothing of the drag on the reciprocating assembly. That'll limit your response and RPM.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

WHY?

Is it a dry sump? If not, what pan is on it? No wet sump FE (either drag race or road race) should require more than 7 1/2-8 1/2 qts regardless of what Roush recommends.

Your system is over filled and its pushing it's way out. To say nothing of the drag on the reciprocating assembly. That'll limit your response and RPM.

That's true. I think my Roush 402SR takes just shy of 9 qts when I change the oil/filter.

[4pipes]

A puff of smoke when first started can be valve stem seals.

[Spoooky]

OK Guys,

I have the other 511 that was sent back to Roush from Phoenix. I waited 2 months for it and it was worth the wait. Mine had the rings that stuck I know you have an 8 stack Ron. Mine has been back in the car and I have about 900 miles on it now. The only problem I have is that is runs a little rich. I just had Charlie at "Hot Rods by Dean" go down yet another jet size. I'm still getting a little pop out the side pipes when you shut it off and I'm sure it's just a little twist of the screw driver again. So close to being dialed in. I chase a little valve cover leak here and there but that's an FE for you with cork gaskets. Ron just stay on them. Todd will help. He is a great guy and a real asset to the Roush Company.

[csx4910]

Thanks for the advice Tim I appreciate it. I at least have confidence it should(hopefully) be fixed right when it gets back. I just dont think a compnay as large as Roush should be having to "wait" on parts for over a month. You would think they would either keep a bit more on hand or have the pull with thier vendors to speed up the process but I understand warranty work is at the bottom of their priority list as it costs them rather than make them money. I only hope when it comes back I can keep it in the car long enough to put some miles on it and enjoy it while we have prime driving weather.

I feel guilty of always bugging Todd but he seems to be the only person there that gives me the truth.
Ron

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by SandyC

Ron,

One of the things that's frustrating about this is that the clock is ticking thru the driving season here in Phoenix. This is prime time right now and will come to a halt around June, then not pick up again until October. At this point I think Roush owes you a new engine, not a rebuilt one; the next one on the shipping list should be yours. A letter outlining your experience to Jack Roush personally might be in order too. Or, when he comes out for the NASCAR races here in Phoenix he normally stops in at one of his dealers for an appearance and is very approachable, you could tell him in person of your experience. His appearance schedule is on the Roush website. Also, have you tried to call Jack at his office? You never know. I met him at an appearance at Sanderson Ford last year and he seemed like a pretty down to earth guy. I think you've done your fair duty in attempting a resolution thru the chain of command and now maybe it's time to go to the top. You might tell Todd that is your intention first. This is one of their top-of-the-line engines and you deserve better treatment.

I'm kinda coalescing around this line of thinking. At this point, I think they just owe you a new engine. If I'm not mistaken, the 511 with stack injection is more or less about the cost of new all aluminum SOHC engine. I would start a letter writing campaign as well. Maybe give it couple more weeks and see if the piston availability issue turns into another delay of some kind, but racheting up the heat is advisable IMHO. You deserve it. Sounds like you got a lemon.

[csx4910]

Yes between the Fuel injection option and I had the block clear coated(no one laugh, but I thought it would be easier to keep it nice looking) It ended up just shy of $39000 for the motor

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Yes between the Fuel injection option and I had the block clear coated(no one laugh, but I thought it would be easier to keep it nice looking) It ended up just shy of $39000 for the motor

As I said, you deserve far far better.

[RodKnock]

In fact, I would be tempted to pull a Michael Moore and go see Mr. Roush personally a la Roger Smith and Michael Moore in Roger & Me. I've gotten far more upset in situations like this with "stuff" at a fraction of the cost of your engine.

[Got the Bug]

Ron,

You may have already covered this in a previous post, but who did you actually buy the motor from? Was it a Roush dealer?

I've had two issues with my Roush 402 and in both instances (the original dealer/installer in Reno and then a dealer/shop in the SF Bay Area) a Roush dealer has handled all contact with Roush to successfully resolve the problems.

Stephen Bramlitt at Full Throttle was the dealer in Reno. Steve/Mustang Ranch was the SF Bay area Roush dealer that recently performed some warranty work on my car.

My point is, if at all possible, work any issues that you have through a dealer. Let them be your advocate with Roush to resolve the problem.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

WHY?

Is it a dry sump? If not, what pan is on it? No wet sump FE (either drag race or road race) should require more than 7 1/2-8 1/2 qts regardless of what Roush recommends.

Your system is over filled and its pushing it's way out. To say nothing of the drag on the reciprocating assembly. That'll limit your response and RPM.

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

[Night Enforcer]

As to your oil leak; is it leaking towards the front of the engine? The reason I ask is that I had an oil leak on my Roush and I originally thought it was coming from the rear of the engine. The oil was actually coming from the front of the engine. It was a leaky oil pressure gauge fitting. You might want to check it out.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Night Enforcer

As to your oil leak; is it leaking towards the front of the engine? The reason I ask is that I had an oil leak on my Roush and I originally thought it was coming from the rear of the engine. The oil was actually coming from the front of the engine. It was a leaky oil pressure gauge fitting. You might want to check it out.

I also chased that one down for a while as well. I ended up replacing the nylon line with a braided line.

[PANAVIA]

twobjshelbys -- your car is welcome here pursuant to our phone conversations -- just cant do much so far away.

All, ; -- Todd and John at roush are good guys and they do get support from laterally and above. -- they are constantly working on improving the business and the builds.

I am glad to say we (Mustang Ranch) have given them some contributions that have made differences in what we see from them.

If they seem slow to respond, but you also need to set expectations with them, they are just like any other vendor, you have to follow up as well.

Steve

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

Then how much ground clearance with a 'deep racing pan' on it? Drag race pans are wrong for Cobras. And 11 qt oil changes are insane. You don't have an endurance race car which would be dry sump anyway.

Look I know you have bigger issues to resolve with Roush but you've been sold a lot of BS about needing stuff like this.

When you get it back, have sombody put the Canton RR pan (or Aviad, Armando) on it with 8 quarts for the whole system and it will work and fit perfectly. Change the pick up to match the pan.

Barry or Keith could have built two 600HP FE's for $40K. And if you insisted on FI maybe another $6K. A $40K engine will not comeback in resale value.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

This is testing the few brain cells that I have left...but I recall that you posted a picture of your car on a lift at some point. I remember commenting that visually, the pan on your car looked like the same same powder coated pan that Roush engines ship with. You may want to measure/compare the dimensions of your pan to a standard Roush pan.

[vettestr]

Why the heck worry about 8 quarts or 12 quarts,? If Roush wanted 12 quarts I sure would not spend several hundred dollars to reduce the system volume.

Ron, I understand you are waiting for custom pistons to be manufactured if got the correct jist. What overbore or how many thou over the stock or original bore are they going? I know they are the guru's but seems a sleeve in the damaged cylinder would keep you from having to over bore the engine. What is the latest info on when you can come play? She sure has a sweet sound and a great rumble coming down the road.
Jeff C

[SP01715]

TS, I have about 7K miles on my motor, and I have no smoke on start up at all. My motor also has the standard silver powder coated Roush pan and it takes 9 quarts with an oil and filter change. I would figure out what pan you have and make sure you are not over filling.