What would it take?

[Excaliber]

I just did a little math on that bore size, man I GOTTA be missing something here. If the block deminsions (bore center) are stock at 4.38 and the bore itself is 4.12 that leaves a cylinder wall thickness of something like .026. The 427 FE is considered a "thin wall" casting and it is twice as thick as that, coming in at over .050. Whew, these 427W's are "out there" on the ragged edge. No way your going to be able to bore it out if you loose a piston and need to rebuild. It would have to be a sleeve.

[Danr55]

Ex, Now you've really got me confused. I thought the 400M was a 400 Midland.. similar to the 351 Midland at .03 over and stroked. Same heads with the offset valves, etc.

[madmaxx]

Somebody is missing something .026" no way!! In a bad environment, let say someone ran without antifreeze corrosion can conservatley be estimated at .005" per year. this block would hole through in 5 years just from corrosion!!! Is this not a boss block? are they thicker? Comes with a 1 year warranty, but then again the best warranty is one you never need. I guess the Dart Block Roush uses and KC in his 427 are thicker.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I just did a little math on that bore size, man I GOTTA be missing something here. If the block deminsions (bore center) are stock at 4.38 and the bore itself is 4.12 that leaves a cylinder wall thickness of something like .026. The 427 FE is considered a "thin wall" casting and it is twice as thick as that, coming in at over .050. Whew, these 427W's are "out there" on the ragged edge. No way your going to be able to bore it out if you loose a piston and need to rebuild. It would have to be a sleeve.

[FIA-ERA]

The 400M was based on the "Cleveland" series of motors, not "Windsor". It has the extended timing chain cover area already cast into the block, as the 289/302/351W has a separate piece. The 400M was a real dog back in the day.

I thought the 400M was a 400 Midland.. similar to the 351 Midland

. I've never heard of this motor? This motor is based of of the "Windsor" series, not "FE" family for sure! Look at the heads (exhaust ports), the valve covers are totally different, the fuel pump, etc.

The items you would have to change are the headers, possible oil pan, clutch, flywheel(neutral balanced), side pipes possible, misc. hoses, etc. I installed a 351W instead of a 289/302 and the changes were minimal. Their just a fatter and taller motor. Good Luck, Matt

[madmaxx]

The dart iron eagle sportman indicates minimium wall thickness at .250" @ 4.1875 bore they also talk about priority oiling system. max cubic inches 457. so even at 427 it appears they are leaving some on the table. .250 wall is thicker than stock motors new from the big 1, Ford. I hope this engine is a home run, I bought Ford stock the other day.

[Excaliber]

Your right, the 400M is based on a Clevland (351 C) block, my mistake. It's easy to confuse the two. 400M runs a 4" Windsor crank and has the same bore spacing. It also has the same head bolt pattern as a Windsor. The block oiling is different (NON PRIORITY), the deck hieght is different, the HEADS are substantially different and as I recall the BELL HOUSING is a 429-460 bolt pattern? So it is indeed a different block. I've heard it called "M" for modified or "Michigan" but never a Midland?

So the question remains: How the heck does Ford get a .125 over bore if this block is in fact a Windsor, or even a Cleveland for that matter, with the same bore spacing.

Max, the Dart iron eagle block you refer to is a real head scratcher. That must be a completely new design with larger bore centers in order to get THAT big bore!

The Windsor block vs Cleveland block priority or non priority oiling system is much like the center vs side oiler FE debate. Which is "adequate" depends largely on how hard your "racing".

From Ford as it regards this block:

4.125" bore capacity (sonic check recommended), finished at 3.990" to 3.995" rough bore

[LMH]

Ford does recommends sonic checking the final bore if going 4.125 but the cylinders are siamesed to add strength/material. Not sleeved as far as I know but you can bet it's strong enough if Ford has a warranty on it.
Larry

[Excaliber]

I think your right LMH, siamese but not sleeved. This, apparently, is an entirely new design based on a Windsor platform but sharing some characteristics of the Cleveland as well. Best of both worlds? Being essentially a "race block" no doubt it is a high strength block casting as opposed to a standard production 351W.

Could be a home run for Ford, BUT, I personally will pass on this. You WILL have to sleeve it if you ever to need to bore it for what ever reason (broken piston ring, scoured cylinder wall, etc.). To me that says it's a "one time" and one time only motor. With such a thin bore left to work with it I'm not sure a sleeve will even work. It could be a "throw away block" if you damage it.

[Danr55]

It does look strange with pentroof valve covers on a small block motor.. It's one of those "not quite" situations that made Max Smart famous.

[Excaliber]

Since these are not standard issue 351W heads, they have a raised exhaust ports, will you be able to get headers for it? They may have to be custom made ($$$$).

[Ron61]

Ernie,

The 69 428 SCJ was an almost square bore/stroke. Bore was 4.130 and stroke was 3.984. Heads were 427 low risers and the rods were the LeMans cap screw type.

Ron

[Excaliber]

I think thats the same block deminsions for all 428's, smaller bore and longer stroke than a 427.

The big deal with the 427 was the larger bore allowed for larger valves and better flowing heads. Racer trick "back in the day" was to use 427 heads on a 428, BUT you still had to use the smaller 2.02 (or so) max valve size. Same problem with this new small block 427W, your limited on valve size. Even with the 427 FE and it's big bore the top of the cylinder bore had to have a "notch" in it for max valve size clearance.

[Ron61]

When we had my heads off my pistons were notched and they were the ones that came from the factory. I had the compression lowered to try and get by on the lousy gas, but the gas kept getting worse and I quit trying to make the car run well with it.

Ron