Need appraiser

[dave from mesa]

Mikie there is rifling in the first pic.

[mikiec]

Yes, I finally saw it. The flash helped as I do not have a flashlight here at work. New one on order.

I've been told that the rifling is a 3 land and groove that was done when the barrel was relined during the conversion from percussion to metal casing.

Mike

I need to see if Ed will allow me to run a 50 cal bore brush through it to see if I can clean off some of the rust. I do know this gun has not been cleaned in over 40 years, possibly longer.

[DWRAT]

Mike,
Don't clean the gun at all. You will hurt the value if you start removing all the rust with a wire brush.
That would be a big time rookie move, kinda like parking dead nuts in a burn out path.

[Fordzilla]

Mike, Although the guys mean well, they are obviously not antique gun guys. Yes, It is US Military. Yes it is a US arsenal 50-70 conversion. Lack of cartouche on the stock is common. The stock was replaced at time of conversion & barrel relining. Yes, it needs to be cleaned. Yes, you can clean the bore with a bore brush. Use a 50 caliber brush & remove all the lead & grime you can. After that I can tell you a trick used by the pros to clean the remainder. Easiest to describe over the phone. Yes, the active rust on all metal should be removed. Don't polish it, just clean off the rust, leaving the metal patina intact. Bronze wool should be used with a light oil. Automatic Tranny fluid works great.

[Fordzilla]

Mike, If Ed wants to research the serial number here is a link. For a fee SRS will find out if any records exist on the carbine, & provide them.

http://usmartialarmscollector.com/home

I've used the service & had several that came back as issued to famous units in both the Civil War & Indian Wars. Some even came back with the Soldier's info (name, unit & such) which then allows you to continue the research through the National Archives. I have contacts for that too. The documented history of a firearm can enhance it's value greatly.

[DWRAT]

I have a wire brush on a bench grinder you are welcome you use seeing it's OK to clean the gun.

[Car Nut]

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Mike,
Don't clean the gun at all. You will hurt the value if you start removing all the rust with a wire brush.
That would be a big time rookie move, kinda like parking dead nuts in a burn out path.

Or making dead nuts by dropping them in the carburetor.

I find this conversation interesting to say the least, sounds like you are in good hands with Fordzilla.

Once you get it clean, you might want to consider Shooter's Choice Rust Preventer. It has done a good job for me over the years and smells pretty good, although I don't sniff it.

[dave from mesa]

Remember
Brass or nylon brush. Never stainless.

[Fordzilla]

Yes, Like Dave says, Use a brass or nylon bore brush. And yes, like Car Nut says use a rust inhibitor, Shooter's Choice is good.

There are many good rust preventitives on the market. Many are the same thing just packaged different. Walmart's wonderlube is Rem Oil, etc. I like G96 the best as it cleans lubes & protects. Do not soak the wood with any oil or rust inhibitor, also do not apply it so heavy for it to run into the wood & soak it. Just a light coat wiped on the metal parts after removing the rust. An old trick & the cheapest is to use automatic tranny fluid. It does wonders & leaves the metal looking nice. Many dealers use it at gun shows to have their guns looking their best at sale time.

Rat, Cleaning of antique firearms is not taboo as in the case of cleaning antique furniture, etc. But it must be done correctly. Just like cleaning your Cobra must be done correctly. A wire wheel on your aluminum kirkham body for cleaning is just as wrong as on your antique firearm.
Bronze wool & light oil rubbed gently to remove rust & grime is the way to go on firearms. This removes the active rust but leaves the overall metal patina.
The bore of the firearm- you can get aggreesive with but not so aggressive as to scratch it. After removing what you can with a brass or nylon brush with solvent, I then go to a product called lead away. It is a yellow cheese cloth that can be cut into squares. I then take a square of it & place it over the bore brush. I use a plastic gommet (purchased at a gun shop) to protect the breach or muzzle end (I prefer to go in from the muzzle for this procedure) & use a rod that can be hooked to a drill. Spinning the brush with the lead away cloth will remove lead & grime like you never thought possible in the bore. It will remove all the crap which you thought was the bore surface & leave it clean as a whistle with out scratching the bore. Using a grommet to protect the muzzle end is a must as the lead away cloth will also remove the finish & any patina from around the muzzle exterior where it comes in contact with while inserting & removing it. The cloth with come out pitch black for so many times you won't believe it! If this procedure intimidates you, you can have the lead removed electronically by any good gunsmith. Or just leave the bore alone as only someone wishing to shoot it will care about bore condition. This is one of my favorite cartridges & I reload them. Brass is now available but years ago when it wasn't, I used to form it from 348 Winchester brass. It worked good but 50-70 brass extracts better & will last a lifetime. If you have any questions at all, best to ask before you do something. You have a great piece of Americana that is rich in history. The last book I authored titled "Guns That Talk" is a collection of photographs & captions on firearms with unique histories. The title came from the old saying "If only it could Talk!".
Regards,

[dave from mesa]

" a product called lead away. It is a yellow cheese cloth that can be cut into squares"
Mikie
If you need some I have it. Let me know and I will bring it on the 4th.

[mikiec]

Dave,

Bring some.

Thanks
Mike

[mikiec]

I just spoke with Ed and I'll be taking the gun home to clean it up.

Mike

[Fordzilla]

Mike, Remember..... Gentle. Use Bronze wool. Sometimes in a pinch I use #0000 steel wool but bronze is much better & if you don't have the experience, stick to Bronze. Light oil & gentle rubbing to remove the active rust. The brown & plum colors of the metal are patina. Don't scrub it shiny. Leave the brownish/plum color on the metal.

[mikiec]

Thanks, Mick.

I will be very gentle. I do not want to destroy the value of the gun.

I will post after pics.

Mike

[Danr55]

Mike, If you can read the printing on the gun, all you will do by cleaning it is lower it's value. Old guns appreciate with patina. Just wipe it down with WD 40, wipe it dry then lightly oil it. Don't take any kind of steel wool, bronze wool, or emery to it. At least until you have it appraised.

[Fordzilla]

Mike, NO, NO, NO, never use WD-40 on any firearm. Dan, shame on you for telling someone to do that. It leaves a nasty plastic film type residue. Yes, Rust can be removed from a firearm, Patina is what you don't want to remove. Bronze wool will do the job, just rub gently. Remove the rust but leave the plum brown metal patina. I know because "I buy rust, but sell antiques!" Your Sharps is worth what I said earlier, maybe slightly higher out there as location effects prices & the Sharps will bring more money out West then back East. I recently turned one down at the Empire State Arms gun show in just about the same condition for $2500. 10 years ago I probably would have bought it for that & priced it at $2999. But things have changed. Prices have fallen on everything. Now, I would want to buy one wholesale for $1800-$2000 & price it at about $2500. (That's if it was nice, ratty ones go alot cheaper). Anyway, I know you don't know me & I don't want to toot my own horn but.......I've been in the antique firearm business for 30+ years. I've written numerous articles & authored a well known book on the subject. I've handled & sold more Sharps Carbines then just about anyone in the world, other then Frank Sellers. If you want a reference, take it to Tombstone to the Silver Lady Antique shop. Steve Elliott is an old friend of mine & can vouch for me & what I have told you. If you are not close to Tombstone, take it to any good gun shop that has a gunsmith & get a second opinion. They will even offer to clean it for you & will do the exact same thing I told you & be happy to take your money.

In fact I encourage you to get a second opinion from a qualified dealer/collector in antique firearms.

[dave from mesa]

what he said.

[mikiec]

The cleaning will commence. Dan, Dave I'll have the rifle with me at the 83rd show Saturday.

Mike

[Fordzilla]

Use bronze wool and I like automatic transmission fluid. You can find bronze wool in several grades (I use the medium and fine) at hardware stores. Sine you are new at this start with a fine grade. It may be all you need anyway. Bronze is harder than rust but softer than steel. It won't remove patina & original finish if you go gentle & use common sense. The ATF helps to soften the rust and also prevents it from scratching. It is also one of the best anti-rust gun oils.

[mikiec]

Thanks,

He has an old shotgun that has fallen apart and is junk. I'm going to use that for practice.

Mike