Car won't run in Az......

azfordman · #1 (**permalink**) 08-18-2010, 07:54 PM

Not sure if I am having a fuel issue or a heat issue. Took the car out last night after getting home, ran it down to the gas station, filled up, and after a 10 or 15 min drive went home. Sitting outside the yard while unlocking the gate the car died and wouldn't restart. Pushed it in the yard and it sat over night. Started up this a.m. no problem. Drove into town to get title and tags and the car died while driving, after about 15 minutes. Restarted after cooling down, drove another couple miles and it died again. Repeat. Thought perhaps the trip across the country had loosened up some debris in the fuel tank so I limped a couple miles at a time to the parts store and changed the fuel filter. No help. Put clothes pins on the fuel lines. No help. Was only able to keep it running and drive it home by putting a bunch of ice on the manifold. I think the carb is picking up so much heat through the aluminum manifold that it is boiling the fuel in the bowls. I am going to start with a carb spacer/insulator. Any other thoughts?

mikiec · #2 (**permalink**) 08-18-2010, 10:25 PM

It gets hot in Tucson???

electric pump or manual?

azfordman · #3 (**permalink**) 08-18-2010, 11:06 PM

Manual fuel pump. I know it would help to have an electric pump, but I am not sure it would solve the problem since the issue is at the carb not in the lines. Drove the car 500+ miles in NH without this issue. I am looking forward to driving up for one of the Phoenix cruise nights, and up there it is "really" hot!

Bob Broberg SPF667 460BB · #4 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 12:20 AM

Been there, done that. There are lots of little things you can do that add up to big results. I no longer have heat problems except above 10,000 feet.
Carb phenolic spacer, ProBlend 40 below instead of antifreeze, ProBlend in oil, lift hood when stopped with engine off, float bowls low, electric switch for fuel pump, fan switch and more. They all add up.

AZ run cool Bob

azfordman · #5 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 01:22 AM

Thanks Bob. My first step will be a phenolic spacer....if I cannot find one locally, so far I have only found aluminum ones, I will machine one from wood to see if that solves the problem. The engine temperature runs around 90-100 Celsius, so the motor itself seems to stay cool enough. The issue is the car will die while driving, 30-40 mph...up to this point I have been able to coast to a safe spot to let it cool down. With a bag of ice dumped on the manifold I was able to drive it all the way home with no problem. Without the ice it would have died at least a dozen times considering the distance.

Woodz428 · #6 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 05:50 AM

I tend to start with the least glamorous, how old is the fuel filter? It also displays fairly typical traits of a clogged or clogging fuel filter. It may be that it is dying because the fuel isn't getting through the filter. After it dies, the pressure is still in the system and gradually works it's way through into the carb. If the filter has many miles on it, I'd change that first.

Danr55 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 06:22 AM

I don't know what time you went into town to get the tags but if it was in the AM, it probably wasn't hot enough to cook off the fuel. It sounds like you may have gotten a load of crap gas. Filter got plugged and fuel isn't flowing steadily. Check the fuel filter..

jhv48 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 07:57 AM

If ice on the manifold cured the problem, then vapor lock is your problem.

You can get the phenolic spacer from Summit Racing. Don't use wood or metal as a spacer. Wood can swell from the fuel and metal doesn't insulate as well as the plastic does.

Also, try running with the fans on when travelling slow during warm days. Air circulation can be a problem at slow speeds.

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azfordman

With a bag of ice dumped on the manifold I was able to drive it all the way home with no problem. Without the ice it would have died at least a dozen times considering the distance.

Could be a red herring, but maybe not. Tonight, before you go out, remove your air filter and with your hand move the throttle linkage back just as if you were stepping on the throttle pedal. Look down the primary side of your carb and see how the accelerator pump squirts gas out just like a little squirt gun. Then run your car and, when it stalls and won't start, do the exact same thing and see if you see the little squirts of gas coming out. If you don't, then I'm on board with Woodz428, or there's always the small chance of a sticking float that shuts off the gas when it gets hot.

mr0077 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 08:33 AM

I'm with Dan, it sounds like bad gas...

xlr8or · #11 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 09:37 AM

Could also be a bad fuel pump. Might want to check your oil and make sure the diaphram in the mechanical pump isn't leaking fuel into the oil.

Z-linkCobra · #12 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 10:04 AM

Where is your coil located? What kind of ignition are you running? It doesnt sound like a fuel problem to me. When it dies and wont restart...does it cough sputter try to start and wont...or does it just crank with not even trying?

You filling it up with gas might not have anything to do with the root problem. Patrickt had a good suggestion...next time it wont start...look to see if you have gas out the squirters or pull a bowl level screw and see if they have fule in them.

I dont think its gas related....but what the hell do I know...lol.

Gene

azfordman · #13 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 10:21 AM

First thing I tried was a new fuel filter....did not help.
After it dies there is "zero" fuel at the carb when I pump it manually...bone dry.
When it dies and I try to restart it does not try to fire at all....just cranks.
I know it is fuel related (not spark) because after it dies if I crank it and spray carb cleaner down it's throat it fires right up...and will continue to run for a few miles.

A float sticking from the heat is something I had not considered....thanks patrickt...maybe I will start by pulling the Holley off of my Bronco and see if that solves the problem.

Z-linkCobra · #14 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 10:28 AM

I would say put a fuel pump on it. I had a windsor one time that all of the sudden wouldnt turn more than 4800 rpm. I chased my tail for weeks trying to figure it out. After I changed everything else I changed the last thing that it could possibly be. Put a new manuel pump on it...problem solved. Would pump pressure but not enough volume.

Just a thought.

Car Nut · #15 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 03:43 PM

If you are lucky enough to have a fuel pressure gage, it might give you a clue on the fuel pump. Seems that if the fuel was boiling off it would be immediately replenished by the pump.

Sticking float or a clogged needle seat assembly also sounds more plausible, try tapping the bowl lightly with a very small hammer when its dry.

azfordman · #16 (**permalink**) 08-19-2010, 08:26 PM

Got the Motorcraft carb pulled off the cobra and there was a 1/4" spacer plate, not metal, some type of resin. Well....so much for that idea..... Went ahead and pulled the Holley off of the Bronco and it also had a 1/4" spacer as well as an aluminum heat shield under the carb. Left the spacer on the cobra, added the heat shield, added the second spacer and installed the Holley. Started the car up and fuel was spraying out of the pressed in plug in the rear float bowl. After some research and a few calls decided I couldn't wait to order in a new bowl....hadn't driven the car in over 12 hours!!!...so I pulled the rear bowl off of the Motorcraft carb and put it on the Holley. No leak. Took the car out and........no vapor lock!!! Got my title and plates and headed home. Of course the car overheated badly and I discovered the expansion tank was leaking. Put in a couple of gallons of H2O and made it home. She's back on blocks.......

Danr55 · #17 (**permalink**) 08-20-2010, 10:26 AM

I have a garage full of FE expansion tanks it you need one.

azfordman · #18 (**permalink**) 08-20-2010, 01:39 PM

Thanks Dan, I will let you know if I need to take you up on that offer. The tank is custom fabricated to fit on the 351W, so I will need to check and see if it will be cheaper to have the current tank taken apart and re-soldered along the seam or replacing the tank itself. The expansion tank is one of those little details that I really like on the car.

Danr55 · #19 (**permalink**) 08-20-2010, 02:04 PM

That is an FE expansion tank.. What is custom is the mounting bracket.

azfordman · #20 (**permalink**) 08-20-2010, 02:15 PM

It is a custom bracket that Nick Acton made up to use the tanks on the Windsor blocks. The local shop that he used to have work on the tanks did a horrible job restoring them. The tank had developed a pin hole leak while I was in NH, and we patched it, but it obviously did not hold....Nick thinks the tank needs to be taken completely apart, cleaned, and the joint re-soldered.