Cobra's and Barrett Jackson

[Mulv]

Auctions can be good or bad but no matter what - there is no way to know what a car is "worth" until you offer it for sale. Run times have a bit to do with it but I think you will find that if someone wants a car, they will hang around and bid it up regardless of the time of day.

I sold my car (SPF 136) which was a 427 FE with LeMans cam and real Shelby heads and the car was completely updated with the Bilstein thing and the chassis mods and the spring mods . It was 4 years ago and it was $45K which I thought was fair to both the buyer and I. An spf with a number like 2XX is an old car , at least 13 years and unless you documented the updates, it will drive like an old car. You do not say what engine is in it but unless it is a 427 FE or a Roush there is little value there. When my car was made, a Superformance car was $29K plus engine and trans. It came to $105K by the time it was done. I bought it during the last big econo-dump in 2002 for a lot less, like 40% of that. Then I spent about $5K keeping the car current. Yours is 100 cars later? Probably $31K and there is no way that engine cost $35K back then. Mine did.
I think you did ok overall and the other guy with the black car was really lucky. He only had 2400 miles total on his car and had a big block engine and it was , to be fair a more popular color and chrome this and that. Your buyer paid $36K which might be all the money - how many miles are on your car? Every car at the B-J has new paint (almost every car) so that is not a big selling feature nor is a new engine as most cars there are rebuilt or new in that department.
I think you realise that the only cars for sale at auction these days are there for one of two reasons - the person needs the money or they make a lot of money prepping cars for the auctions. I have a friend who made a lot of money on a car he ran through the B-J. He is the second type. If you are neither of the above then you should hang on to your stuff and not complain when you sell your car in a serious economic depression.

No matter how bad you feel , the guy with the ambulance feels a lot worse... he expected $500K +

Resto, it could have been a lot less - I have a friend here in Scottsdale that bought a Mosport Green 66 convertible that only needs the exhaust fixed (wrong hangers) to be a top flight car - he got it about 5 months ago for $40K and it is a major cherry car...

[mcorrallo]

Got The Bug and Mulv, thank you for your analysis. You may be right that it was not a $50-60K car. But the point is that I took the no reserve risk based on a run time in prime time on national TV and ended up with about the worst lot number of the weekend. Any car, no matter what it is, would have done 30-50% better if it had run in front of a full house with telephone and Internet bidders.

[mcorrallo]

One more thing. Mulv, have you been to B-J? There is no way to describe what a circus it is. Think about the largest collector car auction/car show/car event you can imagine. Then multiple it by ten. The energy in the room during prime time is incredible, unlike anything you've ever seen. But at 11;15pm on Thursday night, it's just like the tail end of any other auction. I promise you than run times have way more than a little to do with the outcome.

[SunDude]

I keep a spreadsheet of SPF "for sale" listings from Cobra Country and Club Cobra. In the past couple years, the average asking price for a 1997 model was $45,100 USD.

No idea what actual selling prices were, as no one publicizes those.

[somedayaurora]

i saw a 80k boss 302 sell for 40k a year or two ago , same story late thursday night . Even the announcers said it sold half price , to three young guys . Unless you sell to a complete fish ie : 70k yellow at russo & steele , Auctions seem to by risky for cobra's . Not to put salt in the wound but when I finally get a cobra I hope to get it a auction .
SDR

[mcorrallo]

I was at Russo & Steele when that yellow one sold for $70k at about 5:00pm Thursday. I was all pumped up as I headed back to B-J to see what my car would bring. Little did I know.

[twobjshelbys]

I donated a charity car -- the Barrett Jackson Shelby GT went to the Shelby Foundation -- in 2009, two years ago. I was told it would be a slot some time 1:00-4:00 on Sunday and guaranteed it would be during TV coverage. We got $72K. If it had been on Saturday it probably would have been double. This Sunday I happened to turn it on for a few minutes and there was another charity car - that was almost identical except it was a pace car but still a Mustang convertible but not a Shelby - that went for $70K.

In real estate it is location, location, location in that order. In auctions it is time, time, time in that order. It doesn't matter BJ or Mecum, or... If you're not in the middle of the day when the people are there you lose the people who just happen to be there. During those off hours you're getting the person that wanted to buy the car anyway, or the stragglers that just happen to be around. The chances of the first are low.

I would vent your displeasure with Gary Bennett.

This is the precise reason that my Cobra is not going to an auction. I was pleased to see the two CSX Cobras draw the price they did but it's too much of a crap shoot in this economy.

[cobrarob]

Sounds like BJ needs to do one or more of the things noted below to make things more fair

1) shorter auction days to ensure that the bidders are present

2) amortize the auction over more days depending on the volume of cars

3) Have auctions more frequently and stay with a cap on the amount of cars at each auction so everyone gets a fair price or at least a fair opporutunity to get a fair price

Greed supersedes all of the above

[OldKarz]

Originally Posted by mcorrallo

I was at Russo & Steele when that yellow one sold for $70k at about 5:00pm Thursday. I was all pumped up as I headed back to B-J to see what my car would bring. Little did I know.

I was there and talked to the owner of that car also. His car was identical to mine, but mine has a white stripe. I was shocked that it went for 70k. I did not think it would bring that much $. I sold a car at Russo/Steele on Saturday at 5:00 and a car at BJ on Saturday at 9:00. Seems that all the money went to BJ on Saturday, but Russo was strong the other days...

[csx4910]

The bottom line is that the consignors with multiple cars or higher dollar cars will ALWAYS get top priority. That is their bread and butter. They may be nice people but they will always do what maximizes their profit (in their eyes) Anything other than Original cobra's MANUFACTURED from 1962-1967 do not do well at auctions, particulary B-J form what I have seen over the years. Maybe a few go for more than their true market value, but that is outweighed by the many that go for much less.
csx4910

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by mcorrallo

One more thing. Mulv, have you been to B-J? There is no way to describe what a circus it is. Think about the largest collector car auction/car show/car event you can imagine. Then multiple it by ten. The energy in the room during prime time is incredible, unlike anything you've ever seen. But at 11;15pm on Thursday night, it's just like the tail end of any other auction. I promise you than run times have way more than a little to do with the outcome.

I have been to B-J indeed and I must say that it is not so much a circus as a livestock auction atmosphere. Which makes sense as the auctioneers are livestock guys... Real auctions run like Gooding, RM and Christies. I am sure the run time may have an affect but the risk was yours to take.

I think you will find that the atmosphere is fueled mostly by booze seeing as how the bidders are given 10 drinks every 8 hours as are their guests.

I agree with CSX on his point as well - the real money is there for the rare , unusual and exotic -

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by cobrarob

Sounds like BJ needs to do one or more of the things noted below to make things more fair

1) shorter auction days to ensure that the bidders are present

2) amortize the auction over more days depending on the volume of cars

3) Have auctions more frequently and stay with a cap on the amount of cars at each auction so everyone gets a fair price or at least a fair opporutunity to get a fair price

Greed supersedes all of the above

Did you somehow get the idea that this is a charity event for the car hobby and not a commercial enterprise? Have you not looked at the guys on the podium to see what sort of people they are? More fair?

I have been to that auction a number of times and I must say that it is the lowest class , most crass event I have ever been to. You have a pile of blue collar heroes who have money but not sophistication being suckered by a bunch of carnies with all the niceties of a loan shark transaction. It is funny if nothing else and somewhat boring overall to watch but the tempo is pretty cool. I would not go to a dealer to buy a car with my sister because I find it tedious, to watch an infomercial on TV for 4 days or worse - to be there as a non bidder - has all of the excitement of watching someone else play a video game.

I will give them their due. B-J are the best I have ever seen at parting the rubes from their money for sure and they are the undisputed champs at turning what should be a business transaction into an emotional impulse buy for huge money. I myself wish I was so good at selling high ticket items in the IT world. They do in seconds what takes me months. They are the masters of timing and process flow and I take my hat off to them.

Fair? That was a good one

[Skully]

The best thing about B-J is seeing cars that you would never see. The show is capitalism at it's best. I talked to several bidders and they all said the same thing, you wont make any money on your car, you will lose. Is there a perfect way , they should have said that they had squeezed more cars in front of you and made you feel a little better by dropping the % to an agreed amount between you and B-J , whats wrong with good business, make both happy. This is my take, it was fun just being there.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Mulv

Did you somehow get the idea that this is a charity event for the car hobby and not a commercial enterprise? Have you not looked at the guys on the podium to see what sort of people they are? More fair?

I have been to that auction a number of times and I must say that it is the lowest class , most crass event I have ever been to. You have a pile of blue collar heroes who have money but not sophistication being suckered by a bunch of carnies with all the niceties of a loan shark transaction. It is funny if nothing else and somewhat boring overall to watch but the tempo is pretty cool. I would not go to a dealer to buy a car with my sister because I find it tedious, to watch an infomercial on TV for 4 days or worse - to be there as a non bidder - has all of the excitement of watching someone else play a video game.

I will give them their due. B-J are the best I have ever seen at parting the rubes from their money for sure and they are the undisputed champs at turning what should be a business transaction into an emotional impulse buy for huge money. I myself wish I was so good at selling high ticket items in the IT world. They do in seconds what takes me months. They are the masters of timing and process flow and I take my hat off to them.

Fair? That was a good one

Not much of a stock market guy either I suppose?

[Fitz]

It is too dam bad. I wish I could get rid of my toy. Sometimes you are too close to the situation. These cars are passive extra toys that bring big smiles to everyone that drives them.
Problem is they get older, you don't drive them near as much as you use to. Now you think you could have put that cash into another toy, like a boat!!!
I wish some nice person would offer me something reasonable but in todays market that is not going to happen. You look at many really nice cars with engines that say Roush on them and think they are really big bucks.

Problem is your car is just as nice; drives better, has more things under the hood/body but unless someone wants your car.....it is just another play toy.

MIne is always for sale. Somebody offers $65,000 and it is gone and I would take a serious lost. But in todays market I am dreaming. That is only 10 grand more then my first car that was way less a car. So enjoy your toy, think like a kid and remember you always wanted one of these cars when you were a kid.

Now you are driving one; may not be a ""real one"" but trust me an old real orginal one would not go around corners like our cars do.

Real sorry about getting screwed at BJ. I would be sick too.

[mcorrallo]

I understand there is risk involved when you expose your car to a no reserve auction, especially a Cobra replica. But the risk should be limited to how the crowd reacts to your car. Will there be two bidders who like it enough to drive up the price to what I think it's worth? I accepted that risk and would not have complained about a similar result had the car run around 7:30pm as anticipated. But a consignor should not have to risk whether the car will be bid on by 2,000 potentail bidders or 20 potential bidders. The lot number you are given, upon which you base your decision to take the first risk, tells you that. Now we know that at Barrett-Jackson, there is a second level of risk you are taking when you consign your car.

I have requested relief from them. I'll let you know how they respond.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by csx4910

The bottom line is that the consignors with multiple cars or higher dollar cars will ALWAYS get top priority. That is their bread and butter. They may be nice people but they will always do what maximizes their profit (in their eyes) Anything other than Original cobra's MANUFACTURED from 1962-1967 do not do well at auctions, particulary B-J form what I have seen over the years. Maybe a few go for more than their true market value, but that is outweighed by the many that go for much less.
csx4910

Zacctly, Rick Hendrick (NASCAR owner) was there to sell 5 cars and he also bought a few, he was sitting with Ron Pratte, you think his cars went over the blocks at 11:00pm???????
Money talks,BS walks, especially at any BJ auction.........you roll the dice and hope for the best........I'd bet the rent that 50+% of the sellers lost money on their cars.............
IMHO, the BJ auctions are nothing more than a sleazy side show/rip off..........some cars would stall out at a price and then they would get "talked up" and stay on the block another few minutes, some would stall out and get the hammer immediatley, has a lot to do with who is selling and who is buying, IMHO of course.........

I have requested relief from them. I'll let you know how they respond.

I really wish you the best of luck with this,but don't hold your breath....a couple of years ago one seller tried to sue over the block time or lack thereof on his car compared to other cars, he got nowhere real fast with his claim..........seems they have their bases covered pretty good...........

David

[gsharapa]

I think I would of start bidding on my own car if it looked like the hammer was going to fall on $ 33K and I wanted $50K+. Might be better to see if the other person would keep going up or not and worst case you pay some commissions vs losing a ton. I heard many have sleeper bidders out there to do that. I would personally never put a car in an action without a reserve unless they guarantee me a minimum price.

Sorry to hear they got another one of our fellow Cobra participates

[Mulv]

You should have taken your car to Russo and Steele. A replica CSX car went for $335,000- with the premium. Even a midstates went for 70.. go figure

http://www.russoandsteele.com/

[jetsbaby]

Originally Posted by gs harapa

I think I would of start bidding on my own car if it looked like the hammer was going to fall on $ 33K and I wanted $50K+. Might be better to see if the other person would keep going up or not and worst case you pay some commissions vs losing a ton. I heard many have sleeper bidders out there to do that. I would personally never put a car in an action without a reserve unless they guarantee me a minimum price.

Sorry to hear they got another one of our fellow Cobra participates

Unfortunately you can not bid on your own car..But you can have a friend sign up for the auction and bid on your own car until he gets to the price you want..Then if some one does not out bid him/her then you are safe..If not then you just get to keep your car minus the seller and buyer fee..Its better paying the fees then losing your car for a major lost. You have to protect your investment..Be smart and play their game..You think that for one second that ALL of those cars are owned by different people bring it to the auction..HELL NO!! BJ owns a lot of cars that go across the block..They have their own people working in the audience biding until they get there expected price..If not they keep the car and put it up for sale in the Scottsdale office or wait a couple of years and try again..I was educated directly by BJ employee that I personally know and told on how it works..He will go nameless..Be smart people..