ffr crash

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

While I can't disagree with anything you've said, and nor do I think Patrick needs the support, but IF you are being honest, he makes a valid point here, merely offering the other side of the coin.

Having read Bill's posts, both here and on our local board, for a good ten years or more, I can attest to his kind heart and passionate stance.

Of course, what I actually believe matters not. Nor does it matter that 90% of the men on this forum have, at least one time in their life, driven an automobile with a BAC over the legal limit.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Of course, what I actually believe matters not. Nor does it matter that 90% of the men on this forum have, at least one time in their life, driven an automobile with a BAC over the legal limit.

I've no tolerance for people mistaking "negligence" for "accidents".
...and less again for people who knowingly and actively blur the truth!

Our John here has tried both, and with it taken the life of someone's child, granddaughter, cousin, friend, possibly even wife, and/or mother.
Which can NOT be undone!

While I don't exonerate her responsibility in this (ie: her choice to get in the car), it could easily have been your child, daughter, wife, mother that he careered into at the next intersection.

--
Just on your post - I've been told that 90% of stats are made up?
Can you reference yours please.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Just on your post - I've been told that 90% of stats are made up? Can you reference yours please.

Anecdotal, from State Troopers, of whom we have more than a few on this board. But I tend to believe it. I also believe "alcohol awareness" is much higher now than it was 30 years ago -- so maybe that figure is on the decline. Another "trooper anecdote" is that it's the amateur drunk who is the most dangerous.

[jhv48]

If I were in ffr's shoes right now, I would be preparing myself for a product liability lawsuit. They'll be caught in the civil suit net that lawyers always throw out there. You can bet your driving shoes this asshole is going to claim a shock broke (or some other critical part) and that's what caused the accident. A good lawyer will grab that cobra carcass and have it dissected and analysed every which way to see if they could possibly blame FFR for this accident. Or at least drum up reasonable doubt. And the shock breakage on early Bilsteins is well documented in ffr's forum.

Hope this twit's lawyers don't read this or the FFR forum.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by jhv48

If I were in ffr's shoes...

People have accidents all the time; fatal ones, too. And the reality of today's criminal justice system is that you don't have to show that the blood alcohol content caused the accident. The end result is that you could go to jail for an accident, because you were intoxicated, when, in reality, the alcohol had nothing to do at all in causing the accident itself. It was just your "status" at the time it all happened.

[Danr55]

I don't think the best lawyer will be able to cover up the BAC in this kids report. He'll be very lucky if he is only charged with second degree murder.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by jhv48

If I were in ffr's shoes right now, I would be preparing myself for a product liability lawsuit. They'll be caught in the civil suit net that lawyers always throw out there. You can bet your driving shoes this asshole is going to claim a shock broke (or some other critical part) and that's what caused the accident. A good lawyer will grab that cobra carcass and have it dissected and analysed every which way to see if they could possibly blame FFR for this accident. Or at least drum up reasonable doubt. And the shock breakage on early Bilsteins is well documented in ffr's forum.

Hope this twit's lawyers don't read this or the FFR forum.

That car way predates the Bilstins, however, I have often wondered how it will work out when a kit car manufacturer puts out a car with zero passenger rollover protection and someone sues. With a good lawyer I think it's a win.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Danr55

I don't think the best lawyer will be able to cover up the BAC in this kids report. He'll be very lucky if he is only charged with second degree murder.

A little devil's advocate. FFR was aware of the need for passenger rollover protection as evidenced by their offering the option. FFR sells the kit with a passenger seat and belts, but no rollbar. Even FFR makes it clear that the car isn't intended as an exact reproduction, so the "not on an original" argument is not valid. FFR has widely publicized a video of one of the company owners rolling one of their cars, so they are quite obviously aware of the potential. The list goes on...

EDIT: Not intending to pick on FFR, the same applies to pretty much all cobras built since 1970.

[Danr55]

To my knowledge, Arizona law requires seat belts for the passenger in the front seat only. There is no mention of rollover protection that I am aware of. Subsequently, I don't believe that argument would have any standing in a court of law as regards the manufacturer. A good prosecutor will hang the driver for being under the influence and for being unable to keep his vehicle "under sufficient control to avoid endangering or damaging, persons or property", which is required by Arizona statute.

[FritoBandito]

Originally Posted by Bernica

In the Old West Days, they would look at something like this and just say "Get a Rope".
They almost still do that in Texas, thank God.

Made that exact comment about this incident today with my buddy.

Also, if there's one thing I've learned from Clint Eastwood it's if you're gonna lynch someone you make sure you finish the job.

[750hp]

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Danr55

To my knowledge, Arizona law requires seat belts for the passenger in the front seat only. There is no mention of rollover protection that I am aware of. Subsequently, I don't believe that argument would have any standing in a court of law as regards the manufacturer. A good prosecutor will hang the driver for being under the influence and for being unable to keep his vehicle "under sufficient control to avoid endangering or damaging, persons or property", which is required by Arizona statute.

Did Arizona pass some sort of tort reform that I was unaware of? Are you contending that civil liability requires some sort of code violation to have standing?

Wile one could legitimately contend that the passenger shares some liability with the driver in regards to the driver's criminal behavior, alleging the same for faulty design and construction would be a much taller order.

[Danr55]

I am not.discussing civil liability as.that frequently defies logic. I am speaking strictly of criminal liability.

[Maricopa]

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet....

[Karl Bebout]

"I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet"

Love you man!

[Car Nut]

As far as civil liability goes, you can sue anybody for anything. That said, I am sure this isn't FFR's first rodeo as far as safety is concerned. I would think FFR's first line of defense is they furnish a kit to builder who then determines what is required to finish the car. Furthernore, since it is a kit, it doesn't fall under any safety requirements of Federal Law. It is up to the builder to determine what safety equipment is installed.

As far as the driver goes, he is in deep ca ca. This should a strong reminder to a lot of us, taking fast cars to a place where you consume alcohol is not a good thing. I know a number of people out there have driven and been over the legal limit, just sayin'. Don't be that guy.

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by LMH

Saw this in another article:

"Staff at Scottsdale Healthcare Osborn Medical Center said Wilson's blood-alcohol content was 0.148 percent, nearly double the state's legal limit of 0.08 percent."

Larry

To help put this into perspective: According to this web-base BAC calculator (www.bloodalcoholcalculator.org), I would need to drink 8 beers in 1 hour to blow a 0.146. That's a lot.

IMO, this punk's actions were 100% criminal and he deserves to be severely punished. His grossly negligent actions have ruined the lives of two families, his own and the victim's.

[Jerry Clayton]

Wouldn't a lot of the liability for the vehicle rest on the inspecting and titling department of the state where it is titled/registered???????

side note-----Revell has a 25 million liability on the model kits of my race car-------

And statement about he was running 60-70 mph and went 100 feet off road and thru fence--------that's like multiplying apples x oranges to get pears divided by banans to get pineapples minus lemons to get limes????????

[patrickt]

In the 30 +years I've been following this hobby, I don't ever remember a suit being filed against a Cobra manufacturer because someone got hurt and claimed it was because the car itself was bad/dangerous/crappy, etc. It's bound to have happened somewhere, sometime... I've just never seen it and, had I, I would most certainly remember it.

[Bernica]

I believe that one of the many reasons the manufacturers sell the cars as "rollers" is that it is then just considered a "part". What you do with that part after you purchase it is up to you.