An Accura would kick a Cobra's Asp

[TampaFla]

As WC Fields once said (to paraphrase) "I may be drunk, but you're ugly, tomorrow I'll be sober, but you'll still be an Acura...."

[comstock]

Dang!!!

Does this mean I have to cancel my order???

NOT!

Steve

[vettestr]

Mulv and Grumpy,
Mulv, I know you have a Cobra and damn nice when I saw it last at Superformance dealer opening. Can not agree with you on "Size of engine is immaterial" In the end do and race what ever works for you . or to quote you again " I follow the motto of the BACC - I never met a Cobra I didn't like.....
Grumpy, It has been a long day for me but think we agree. No I do not want you to freeze anything and think you must compare apples to apples. I just don't like imported apples, for me anyway.
To other/all posters I am the last guy to tell ya what to drive, do what ever works for you. I won't insist on my way or accept your insistance on only your way either. I did not say anything to DAD but do have my own thoughts on what works for me.

[Maricopa]

Has anyone considered that 'Dad' simply didn't want his car crazy son to go out and buy a ridiculously fast, spin-prone and un-crashworthy deathtrap like a Cobra when he had a perfectly good, ABS and air-bag equipped Jap import to drive?

[Mulv]

This is getting out of hand... X, I agree with your choices - have you seen the Elise at the track? Holy cow is it quick!

The new vette is looking good too....

Grumpy - the $300,000 vettes have bigger engines and handle as well.... think a Cobra can keep up with a Z06? at all? anywhere? On the other hand, my plastic car has a trunk... what a dilemma...

I believe everything has been said here and I believe engine size has little to do with lap times really in road cars - as I stated it is cornering speed that matters - if you can do 105 around turn one at Thunderhill in a pathetic cheesebox Honda, which I can - and risk a really big incident in the Cobra at 90 in the same turn which I have also done - it doesn't take long to figure out that acceleration notwithstanding ,if I have to brake to a lower speed to turn it won't be long before I am seriously out of sight in the portable dishwasher - assuming the track has a large number of corners relative to its length - which most do.... I can't even get close to my Honda times at Thunderhill even with a 427 FE... I look better though.. see the Superformance website.. The wallpaper with the blue car at the track is me...

Vettestr - I agree the fridge has no aesthetics whatsoever, but next track event I will either take you or let you do a lap or two in it and I guarantee you will want one for the track days...

Let's all just be happy we look so cool to young people even though most of us are so old...hahaha

Steve

[Excaliber]

302 stock Cobra or fire breathin' big block Cobra, which one is "fast"?

BOTH of them, and yes I think they are "that fast". They were "back in the day" AND they are "NOW".

How so you say?

Just look at what there being compared to, TODAY, right now! A handful of the worlds fastest cars that in many cases FAR EXCEED the low $25K price of a STOCK 302 powered FFR.

That little STOCK FFR will run the 1/4 in the 13 second range. With a LITTLE bit of work, it will take on the MUCH HIGHER cost NSX (not to mention the Porsche)!

Let me "spend" as much on our example FFR as you would spend on the NSX, dollar for dollar. I think we have a race on our hands! Spend as much on the replica as the Turbo Porsche? Hell yeah, dollar for dollar I would not bet against Cobra.

Virtually EVERY "stock" motor Cobra I can think of will run a 13 second 1/4. How many stock cars from a dealership will run a 13 second 1/4 mile? What do THEY cost? IS there a NEW $25K car out there that WILL run 13 seconds? I don't think so!

Dollar for dollar YUP, the Cobra IS fast and WILL compete with the worlds best cars today!

The basic formula was a winner in the 60's and it's STILL the "holy grail" of racing today. Power to weight ratio, it's EVERYTHING when it comes to racing. THAT is where the replica Cobras (by and large) have the advantage over MOST manufactured cars today!

How ironic todays replicas are being compared to the worlds finest and quickest cars. The legend is alive and well, no fantasy, just fact!

[mgilbert]

greetings all, i sure a nsx would blow me off the road, however i bet my cobra feels faster. the sensation of speed is enough thrill for me besides it is a COBRA nuff said. see ya

[klayfish]

To put my worthless $.02 in....

Cranky gets more open track experience in one year, then I've had in a lifetime, so he knows much better than me, but I agree with him completely.

I thought my Cobra was hot sh!t when I bought it. Fast, light, blah, blah, blah.....

Took it autox'ing, which I knew wouldn't be its' strong point. Had a blast, but wasn't overly quick.

Then I took it to the open track. Damn, what a humbling experience. Yes, I know a lot is driver skill and car set up, but there were cars such as Hondas, Acuras, Nissans that were blowing my doors off. And their drivers were in the same run group as me, so they likely weren't experts. I've now done 4 open track events in the Cobra, all on the same crappy track, so I'm comfortable with the track and the car. I'm much quicker and can pass some cars, but I also still get dusted by cars with much less power. I have a lot of fun doing it, but realize I'm not the fastest thing around, or even close to it.

I still love my Cobra. But I enjoy it because I love it's look, the sound, and that it's "raw" driving at it's finest. Is it faster in a straight line than most cars? Maybe. But for me, who cares? I bought it to have a good time with. And that's what I do.

Steve

[trularin]

This thread is going to draw just about everyone.

I think this is apples and oranges. Like comparing a funny car... on a a figure eight track.

Much of what has been said on this thread is true, however, what was your car designed to do?? If you are running on the street and pushing over 400 HP, there is not going to be a lot of cars that will keep up.

If you are ruinning around a twisty track and barely hit, if ever, hit the upper end of the car's speed, I think you might be challenged by the four cylinder six speed with 2000+ technology.

I do not own my car for racing, I own it because I love the styling, the ease of maintenance & repair and most of all... when I drive it on the open road with my hair tossed by the wind, I feel younger, better and down right proud ( there's a sin ).

For those of you who wrote a check and a car appeared in your drive, this may be hard to understand, but for those of us who spend all those hours bleeding, cursing and crying, there is one element these cars adds to any comparison -- personal self worth.

How often did you hear, "WOW, you built it?" How often have you answered a question on this forum because you had to do the same thing... maybe twice.

There will always be a better car. You get your time, then you pass it on to the next guy.

I better get off the soap box.

[Buzz]

Maybe the skill and cajones levels required to drive a hairy beast like the cobra fast on a road course are far higher than those required in more sedate and predictable machines. I bet most cobras in the hands of weekend racers are not being pushed anywhere near their full potential. You need to be a naturally talented, half crazed mo-fo flogging a torquey, bellowing, short wheelbased car with little crash protection, smokin the tires and hangin your ass out in the corners to get the most out of a cobra. Driving it conservatively and smoothly may keep you out of the landscaping but it will likely keep you out of the winners circle as well. I would love to hear from fast cobra drivers like Gordon Levy or Coyled on this topic.
Modern technology has NOT made ordinary cars like an Accura coupe or an M3 faster than the Cobra - THEY ARE NOT - it has simply made them easier to drive. The average driver can go around a track at a given speed easier and with less drama than in a car like a cobra. Its sort of like sending two 9 year olds target shooting with a bb gun and a 3" mag 12 gauge slugster: The kid with the slug gun will land on his butt after the first round and will likely refuse to touch that gun again while the one with the bb gun will win just because he can handle it. Doesn't mean the airgun is better...

[clayfoushee]

I think Buzz nailed it. You have to be nucking futs to drive a Cobra like Ken Miles did. A modern car is more comfortable right up to the limits. So even an above-average non-professional driver is always likely to be quicker with the more modern technology.

[ItBites]

I raced a highly modified NSX (black with carbon fibre panels) with a lot of boost on the hiway not too long ago. I heard he has $160000 in the car. I was in my 454 powered '73 Vette (slightly modofied). I pulled him from 75 to 140 no problem. Wasn't that impressed with the NSX. He looked really pissed when I let him finally catch up. He wanted to go again, so I showed him taillights a second time. I had seen that car around quite a bit before then. Never saw it again...

Now, we didn't turn any corners, and I know from track experience my Vette (a near 4000 lb pig) can't keep up on a road course, but we weren't racing on a road course. We raced in a straight line from a high speed roll and it was fun to see his face afterward.

BTW my Cobra is a little quicker than the Vette, so I'd have really smoked him in the Cobra.


AND, I don't want to hear from the mamby-pamby folks who never exceed the speed limit about how I am so unsafe. You can keep your comments to yourself. This is America folks.

[Madik]

I just ran into the Dad of this father and son team at a Circle K today.

He would like to apologize for causing so much controversy. Apparently his son drives the Acura TSX and he was drunk when he made these disturbing and offensive comments. He has informed me that he intends to sell his son’s Acura and purchase his very own Cobra as soon as he grows a penis.

-Madik

[Mulv]

Buzz Buzz

The modern cars are faster... look at the lap times.. guts or not, Cobras were never that fast... just faster than what was around at the time... and the lack of imagination on the part of the drivers due to oversized egos does not make a difference... When Cobras were new , Formula One had a 70% mortality rate 5 or 6 top drivers dead every year... Dale Earnhardt dies and everyone is still crying years later... Which era is the smarter?

By the way , the fear of not having the fastest car in the world may be due to penis size.....

Mulv

[PJS50]

Let me start out by saying "technology IS a wonderful thing".
I hate to say it but in a lot of ways Mulv is right. Most modern chassis/suspensions will make up for a lack of a LOT of horsepower on the track and with the way that some of these "tuners" are tweaking these sewing machine engines nowadays, I give them a LOT of credit. Have any of you seen these rice burners turning 7 second (OR UNDER) quarter miles on ESPN (I still get a kick out of the FAT slicks on the FRONT tires )? These cars are no laughing matter, but they never will come to symbolize the glory and powererful appearance of even a small block Cobra... It's just different...
Now before you all jump on my sack and do the twist, I do also agree with Buzz in a VERY big way.
Personally, I have only owned a Cobra for a few months now and admittedly, I haven't had her on the track yet. I HAVE put her through some pretty good paces out on the streets in different circumstances however meaning 25MPH freeway exit ramps at 60MPH, apexing street corners when nobody is there to slam into, etc. and I have summized my own philosophy which surprisingly agrees with Buzz's synopsis. A Cobra requires a driver to put his "ass on the line" to be fast! Smoking the tires as you "drift" through the corners. Using sheer front to rear momentum changes to oversteer/understeer your ways through the corners. Balls to the wall acceleration when the road/track is straight enough to allow it. Hard mashing of the brakes to get you to your cornering speed. These are the things that make a Cobra perform with the High-Tech boys. Sometimes it WILL be good enough to pass up the shoeboxes, sometimes it may not! I DO believe though that 95% of the guys who track their Cobras really do not drive them like they stole them, and quite frankly, I don't think that I will drive my Bessie that way 100% of the time either when I finally make it to the track! It has taken me too long of dreaming of owning a Cobra to go out and wreck it just so that I can say I beat WHATEVER on the track... Now, if somebody would like to GIVE me a race-ready Cobra and let me have at it, I am sure my lap times in that will exceed ANY lap that I could do in my own baby... Owning a Cobra is a prestige/respect thing as much as neck snapping acceleration. It takes A LOT more money on the street to get all the looks you will in even a $25,000 Cobra. THAT'S because Cobras STILL are the high-water mark after all of these years! The legends that were created in these little buggy-looking cars with HUGE American muscle under the bonnet survives STILL even after 30+ years...
A couple of you have chimed in here that have Vette suspensions under your snakes. I can remember (late 80's/early90's)Road and Track test driving an Everett Morrison Cobra with a Vette chassis and they said "..this is THE best handling car we have EVER driven... PERIOD!" and this was in the era of the Ferrari F40!
Can't you vette boys do much better on the track then even the "new" vettes? Weight STILL has to be in your favor right?
My 2 cents,
Pat
p.s. I have this little "tuner" that frequently buzzes down the street where my office is. This "thing" sounds more like a jet engine than a car. Let me tell you, it looks to accelerate VERY quickly! When the weather turns nice up here again, I WILL wait for him to drive by and see what Bessie can do, but from the looks of it, I do not think it will be an easy race... Like I said before, not "bad" just "different"!

[Mulv]

Guys

Before any of you decide to smoke the tires, etc, you might want to look at this thread:

Updates on Lew Comerford

We're all having fun I hope.

I don't want to inspire anyone to prove their point.....

I did a lot of professional endurance racing with factory cars and really top equipment... I would feel quite badly if anyone tried to show that I was misguided in my analysis and they were injured...

Thanks

Mulv

[Buzz]

Mulv, I dont think its necessary or appropriate to use Lew's unfortunate incident to make a point on this topic. We all agree that Cobras are difficult to drive fast and unforgiving when they get away. Crashes occur in all forms of racing involving all types of cars.
Look at the other thread where Coyled and Gordon Levy are discussing turning competitive times with a Porsche GT2. I seriously doubt that a 135HP Accura can run with those boys. Nothing against Accuras and certainly nothing against you - this is just a discussion about cars - but I repeat my point: Y2K technology cannot make heavier, lower powered sedans faster than sorted 2300LB, 450+HP Cobras. It only makes them easier to drive. Yes, the average driver will go around some tracks faster in those cars but a driver who is skilled, experienced (and crazy?) enough in a well sorted Cobra should kick a lot of a$$.

EDIT:

I missed your other post with the points about mortality rates in the 60's and the penis thing. First of all I fully agree that todays technological advances have made racing much safer and that is as it should be. No question. I'm not sure what you were getting at with the reference to the ego and lack of imagination of the old drivers. As for the other statement; its unnatural for me to follow that sort of logic but if you have a problem with your weewee please accept my condolences if that makes you feel any better...

[Excaliber]

Well the last few posts compared the Cobra to a $160000 NSX, a Ferrari, a couple of Vettes and some VERY HIGH dollar 7 second Rice Burners!

I'm flattered, looks like my replica Cobra and I are running with the Big Dogs!

Nobodies compared my other cars to a Vette or a Ferrari lately, and I won't hold my breath they will any time soon!

40 years later the Cobra is STILL a contender! I rest my case.

[Fitz]

Nothing like getting in a car driven by such people as Gordon Levy. I know he looks at these forums so I will be kind. I took my old simply 347 car to the All American Track that is closed now out at 115th Ave in Phoenix. Before being black flagged because we were too loud, I managed to not crap in my seat going around the track with "Bart" following us at I think 130mph. My invisible spirit riding with me whispered to me something about "what the F... are you doing here with this guy" "You realize you are going to die" I was thinking about how much life insurance I had. But I just loved the work (ride)! I must say most of us don't really know how to drive a cobra to the limit on a track. What we like is standing around the car, looking at the motor and telling lies. We all know we are telling lies about what we have done but we all pretend we don't know we are telling little white lies and that is ok with all of us. We all wish we were back in college and owned one of these instead of our VWs. I used to think my girl friends day in high school had a comet with some sort of big engine. I said I was going to have something like that when I was an old fart!

[ItBites]

Fitz,

I really don't have the time to stand around and look at the motor, I'm not lying about my little jaunt with the super-NSX - my wife was there with me, screaming from the passenger seat, I hated college and would never go back - I have so much more fun now, I never owned a VW, I've been hot rodding since I was 12 when I got the 67 Camaro 327 powered convertible, and I'm not an old fart.

You are correct that I do not know how to drive the Cobra to the limit - by a long shot...