Roush 511 problems

[csx4910]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted for a while but want to see who else out there has the new Roush 511 8 stack FI motor and if others have had problems keeping it tuned correctly. My car is going back into the shop for the 5th time in 3 months. I still don't have more than 250 miles on it sice I got in in July. (most due to the 2 months total it has spent in the shop and the rest to the wonderdul 112 degree days here in the desert)

I just got it out last week after a pin sheared off in the distributor (which Roush did cover everything including my tow bill very quickly under warranty) After driving it twice it is coughing, misfiring under acceleration etc. Once that happens it has okay power but nothing like the monster it is when it is tuned right. Any ideas of similar experiences?

[John-Tucson]

Two possibel options: 1). carb not set correctly. 2). timing incorrect. Does this occur even when the engine is warmed up ?

[Maricopa]

Seriously, I'd have 'em ditch that super-cool stack EFI and put on a 850 Holley.
Obviously neither Anthem nor Roush know how to make it work.

Another choice if you want to keep an EFI is the stack system from Very Cool Parts or a Mass Flow unit for a carbed look.

[csx4910]

It isn't Anthem's fault. Everytime it goes in it comes out running good but the problem is that is doesn't stay that way. It is doing it both at start up and after the car is warm. Between gears and on initial starting it hesitates, misfires a bit then acts fine. It is a bit worse at lower RPM's. The EFI system can only be tuned by computer. Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon about how evil EFI remember that if it was so bad why does every car in america run on it? I was just looking for suggestion on what would be making it happen.

[Rick Parker]

All currrent OEM cars utilize some sort of fuel injection since it is controlled by a group of sensors and a computor. It generally does a good job and emissions (the original reason for EFI) are kept low and drivability is very good. It sounds like the computor is losing it settings or a sensor is going bad and sending varying information that the computor is making adjustments for and ultimately affecting the drivability as you have stated. Start with the sensors, check the values when cold and hot, then move to the ECU.

[Maricopa]

I'm not anti-EFI I'm just relating what I've seen with fairly radical street motors and that is that these trick EFI systems often don't seem to work all that well, or at least not without a lot of fussing with them.
Car makers all run modest cams (some with variable timing) and have bazillions of dollars (or at least used to )to get all the bugs worked out.

Hope you get it figured out, it's a beautiful car and I'd like to see it out at the AZ Cobra meets.

[oleyellar]

Take it to Bob Rheam at B&R Automive at 25th Ave. and McDowell. He can diagnose the issue and fix it.

[csx4910]

Thanks for the suggestions. Bob actually was the one that it went to last time. I have heard he is one of the best. I hope to get back out on the road soon to meet some of this this fall at the gatherings.
Thanks

[bobcowan]

Sounds like Rick has it. Something is changing under the hood. There are a lot of problems with radical engines and aftermarket EFI systems. It seems the vast majority of these issues can be traced back to two simple things:

1. Faulty sensor. There's a lot of information the computer collects to make decisions. If one opr two of those sensors are not reading correctly, you'll get poor performance. IMO, you should only use factory sensors from GM or Ford. They cost a little more, but they'll work and last forever.

2. Poor tuning. There's a learning curve with performance EFI. And sometimes that learning curve is pretty steep. Automakers have spent milions of dollars and thousands of man hours to develop EFI systems. If you make radical changes in engine parameters, you need to spend some time and money to develop the software.

I have a fairly radical engine, compared to stock. I struggled with my EFI for a couple of years. I was learning, and it was getting better. But it was never quite right; never perfect. Then I found a tuner that knew my system and software, and how to run a dyno. Now it's perfect. Let me tell you, a well tuned EFI is a real joy to drive. Perfect in all conditions and altitudes. Idles smoothly at 850, smooth and docile until I hit the pedal, then it screams and takes off like a jet. I wouldn't ever trade for a carb.

[Ronbo]

Outside of the pin shearing, have you been given any info on what's being done?

At this point I'd be looking for another shop...

[SandyC]

Initially with my 511iR I had an issue with the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) going out of calibration and giving an idle that was inconsistent and high. The TPS was recalibrated by computer and worked fine for awhile then went out of calibration again. I was ready to take the car back to the shop to have the TPS perhaps replaced when for no apparent reason the idle has been spot-on and consistent for the last week or so. A breaking in problem? Dunno, but it's coming off RPM and going into a nice stable idle just fine now. We'll see...

Also have an issue with an occassional misfire when punching the throttle after the engine has been at a steady modest RPM for a couple of minutes. I don't know if this is a problem of the engine getting loaded up or what but this too seems to be getting better and less frequent. This needs to go completely away though because sometimes (rarely now) the misfire is more dramatic and startles me when it happens -- not to mention it must be hard on the engine. So long as it's getting better at a consistent rate I'll hold off on having the curves tweaked to see if this too may be a break-in issue that goes away.

The rear main seal leak issue with the Roush FE's so far has not been a problem for me but is an issue Roush is working on and I wouldn't be surprised if that issue rears its ugly head to me too -- again, we'll see. I do think I have a small oil leak in the transmission where the speedometer cable attaches and will have them look at that at the shop, but that's not engine related.

I'm at about 375 miles total and these are the issues I've had so far. As this engine is breaking in I'm liking it more and more and the pull is great. Dyno'd at 607/595.

[vettestr]

4910,
I do not know the stack system but many systems have the ability to record the parameters and sensor output levels. Record all events chosen for ??? whatever size your laptop memory allows you to see any faults. Is this something that would allow the gurus to chase down gremlins?

[mikiec]

Jeff,

It is my impression that the Roush system is propriarty and will not allow non Roush techs to connect. Bob Potter had that issue when he got the first 427W stack system. They, Roush, told him he needed to take it to a Roush shop for tweeks etc....

Mike

[vettestr]

Originally Posted by mikiec

Jeff,

It is my impression that the Roush system is propriety and will not allow non Roush techs to connect. Bob Potter had that issue when he got the first 427W stack system. They, Roush, told him he needed to take it to a Roush shop for tweaks etc....

Mike

Hello Mike,
I am working from memory and that always gets me in trouble but I think
CSX4910 stated Anthem Motors sold and did the install and tuning. Is Anthem a Roush Dealer/shop ? I am not surprised only Roush can modify or see programing issues but I would be very surprised if the system would not record some period of run time.

CSX4910,
It has been a while since we heard from you and where having issues then. Bob B gave you the name and # of the Roush Mgr. and you were happy he ("got more done in 20 min.. ") than all other actions. If it not right has Roush had a chance to look at it and what have they said needs to happen next?

[Rick Parker]

The 511 FE is without a doubt a beautiful piece of machinery. However if it requires a specific techician to work on it, in my opinion that takes away a huge part of the draw for these cars; the ability to work on them. For those that are able to or would rather "Write a check" then that can be accepted but the inconvenience of having to possibly take the car to a distant shop over and over cannot be overlooked. JMO

[SandyC]

The programming is indeed proprietary and is password protected by Roush. You gotta be a dealer to get the password to access it.

[csx4910]

Sandy, Our 2 motors are mirroring each other with regards to the problems. My rear seal has already been replaced but Anthem also had a small leak by the trans. My new problem is exactly what you are describing with the missing after sitting at the same RPM and it is getting more severe. That is why I took it back in Friday. Anthem is a Roush dealear and both they and Bob (I cannot remember his shops name)here in town have tuned it.

For those that seem to have a problem with me buying an engine "writing a check" was I belive was the comment, that is no one's business but mine. I don't feel the need to explain to anyone else but owning my own business and working 90-110 hours a week i don't have time to mow my grass let alone sepnd hours working on a car. I don't see why that should put me in a lower class of cobra owners.

Roush had helped out and after that it has been in the shop twice more after breaking. Roush has been better in responding faster and getting the parts but at the same time I think it is a bit excessive to have a car with 250 miles on it (not even broken in) back in the shop 5 different times in the last 3 months.
Ron

[mikiec]

Ron,

I hope you get it fixed soon.... prime time driving is now. Tell John to Get ER Done.

Mike

[BossCER]

csx4910,
I feel your pain and know your frustration.
Aftermarket EFI can really try your patience, but when you get it right, and you will, you will be very happy w/ the drivability.
I have been down the aftermarket EFI road more than once and have to tell you honestly that the key to making it work correctly is in the software and the tuner.
I can also tell you that even though as others have said that the Roush programming is proprietary, it can be gone around and reprogrammed if necessary.
Dave at AutoTrend EFI is an expert in these areas and has my injected Boss motor running like a top on Accel Gen. 7 software.
At the very least, I would suggest that you give him a call and bounce your problem off of him. (530) 642-0999
Check out his website if you get a second http://www.autotrendefi.com/
I wish you the best of luck.
Chris
Send me a PM if you would like to discuss any further

[SandyC]

I just learned that Roush is flying out their EFI expert with his computer to Phoenix this Monday from the factory in Livonia, MI to solve these issues that are affecting three cars. Now that, my friends, is customer service.