Roush wants my Alum. FE 511 motor - Page 2

Stentor · #21 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

What's the cost of this motor ?

About $35k according to quotes I received.

FUNFER2 · #22 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 10:04 AM

Great, thank you.

Keithc8 · #23 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 03:00 PM

Looks like there is more to these FE engines than Roush thought. I sure am glad we have been building them for 25 years and have a head start on these things. They are a little different than your standard small block for sure.
We also use the Fast computer set up so that someone besides ourselves can tune and work with us on the EFI. There are pros and cons to locking the tune where the customer can not work on it. I have customers that are pretty smart on some of this stuff and like to work or fine tune some of the stuff themselves.
I am sure they will get you going soon enough. I hope that they are not ordering the blocks honed from Shelby because they get the sleeves honed from Darton and then install in the blocks and they are as much as .005 out of round. This is not good for ring seal form sure. Good luck, Keith

FUNFER2 · #24 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 04:22 PM

Keith- I'm happy we all have you to educate us. I HATE,... the idea of not being able to tune a engine myself, to what the engine and I need !
I'm sure some of it has to do with the warranty.

When we first started racing sprint cars, we leased a engine from a builder. That lasted two races because he would not let us tune it and, he warned us to not to run it passed 7,600 rpm. That way, he kept us from over taxing the motor but it also kept us in the back of the pack. We run our motor at 8,400 rpm, it lasted all year and we'll just freshin' it up for next year. One team over 9,000 rpm but,.......went through 4 engines this year !

(idiots)

Sorry, went a little off the subject here.

When building mine for the Cobra, I found out just how different these FE's are. In fact, a local engine builder, which has many years behind him said, "what's an FE" ?

I'm sure he was kidding but, these engines are a different bread.

I've been researching FE parts and builders for some time now, and have happily decided to have you build my next motor. Whether it's a small block, FE or your 514, (heck, even a Hemi) I don't see how anyone can build one better in quality and price.

Your the top dog Keith.

Thanks,

Karl Bebout · #25 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Spooky, you must have the patience of Job. I can't fathom just how cranked I'd be if I spent $35K on an engine and had your problems. Glad to hear that Roush is taking care of you. They should.

Spoooky · #26 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 09:23 PM

Karl,

I'd love to have my car but what can you do? It really runs great, just smokes when you put your foot in it and they want to make it right. You are right, they should. What a monster it is though. Well worth the wait. I just hope not too long.

greg schroeder · #27 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 09:49 AM

Were there any rear wheel HP numbers for the 511 ci?

Spoooky · #28 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 10:05 AM

Greg,

I have a Dyno sheet that shows 568 hp at 5200 rpm at the wheels.

greg schroeder · #29 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoooky

Greg,

I have a Dyno sheet that shows 568 hp at 5200 rpm at the wheels.

Wow, that's pretty awesome. Were did they do the dyno?

Spoooky · #30 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 01:02 PM

Anthem Motors...

greg schroeder · #31 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoooky

Anthem Motors...

Pretty awesome man. That's just a loss of 32 HP from flywheel to rear tires. The Superformance exhaust must really perform well with that engine.

With that wheel HP on drag radials that's easily a mid 10 to high 9 second 1/4 mile and on any tire a nearly 140 mph range trap speed. I'd really like to see your car run at the next SECC drag day if you're up for it?

SandyC · #32 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 02:02 PM

If a builder "opens up" the programming on their EFI system, for example, without at least a warning not to touch or risk messing everything up, then that builder, in my opinion, is obligated to provide the customer with detailed, and I mean detailed, documentation of the system, how it works and a flow chart showing a workflow on how to set it up with specs, numbers, charts and graphs included. This would require a lot of time and work by the builders and I have yet to see anyone do it properly. I don't know why except maybe it's just too much paperwork for a small group of customers that would actually use this info.

It's been a frustrating experience for me in other fields when a manufacturer tells you kind of how to do things without telling you in detail how to do it. I was looking at an owner's manual for a Hewlett-Packard professional grade large format inkjet printer the other day and it was absolutely fantastic. Man, that's how to write a user's manual. I have yet to see a single product in the automobile aftermarket field that even approaches that level of professionalism in documentation (although the automobile OEM's do a good job on their shop manuals for service centers). If a builder is unable to document their system with that level of professionalism then at least a serious warning needs to be issued to the user to keep hands off because basically he's on his own and there's trouble brewing.

I've read time and again how someone had tried to tune their EFI system and had poor results and ended up taking it to an expensive professional for tuning. If the user had just had the proper documentation he wouldn't have to do that. In my opinion if a builder doesn't document their system in detail then they should lock it and provide good customer support in the field instead, if for no other reason than to prevent the customer from digging the hole deeper.

Spoooky · #33 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 05:54 PM

Greg,

That is something I always wanted to do. Got to get the motor back fro Roush first. It's not even out yet to get there. I hope they will get it out this week and the turn around time isn't too bad. I was told about 4 weeks before I get my car back.

Stentor · #34 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

Pretty awesome man. That's just a loss of 32 HP from flywheel to rear tires. The Superformance exhaust must really perform well with that engine.

With that wheel HP on drag radials that's easily a mid 10 to high 9 second 1/4 mile and on any tire a nearly 140 mph range trap speed. I'd really like to see your car run at the next SECC drag day if you're up for it?

A loss of only 5% HP seems unrealistic (from flywheel to rear wheel). I believe that Roush advertises this engine as having 600 HP and 625 TQ. Something here doesn't seem to add up.

Greg, I believe you replaced your SPF sidepipes because they were too restrictive (loss of upwards of 100 HP on a big block from what I have been told). And I know others have done this, as well.

Spoooky, have you modified your sidepipes, or are you using the stock SPF pipes?

392cobra · #35 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 06:49 PM

I agree,that loss doesn't add up.

It could be at the flywheel,uncorrected.

greg schroeder · #36 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stentor

Greg, I believe you replaced your SPF sidepipes because they were too restrictive (loss of upwards of 100 HP on a big block from what I have been told). And I know others have done this, as well.

The 550 flywheel HP Windsor Roush 427R is usually in reality around 390 corected wheel HP on a basic set up Superformance. My motor was 561 flywheel from Roush and made a touch over 400 at the wheels corrected the way the car was delivered in Superformance configuration. I changed the fuel tank pick up, fuel filter, fuel line, air cleaner, carb, headers and side pipes and it made 475 corrected wheel HP. After all the changes the trap speed comes out a bit over 130 mph with 750 ft DA which is 132 corrected to sea level which is spot on 475 wheel HP plugged into drag calculators.

The proof is generally in trap speed.

I gained about 20 wheel HP with my side pipes, but the torque curve widened quite a bit.

Spoooky · #37 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 08:42 PM

I never ran the car on the Dyno. They did and gave me the sheet. I have serial #3 on my block. It was the 3rd, 511 FE Alum. block that Roush put out. Anthem wanted to see what it could do. Just going off the #'s on the sheet they gave me when I picked up the car done a few years ago. The side pipes are the SPF, that I know. Running a Holly 650 4barrel, TKO 600 trans w/ .64 5th gear, MSD ignition. The compression is 10.0:1. This car will snap your neck, that I know. It does have some big power. The also have a 0-60 time of 2.8 sec. That is why I'd like to really see what it could do myself. Help me out guys if I'm wrong. They have a dyno drag machine there and it ran a 10.2 in the 1/4 according to the sheet. Does that make sense? I wasn't driving it.

Fitz · #38 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 10:57 PM

Experiance on a Dyno I have. Each Dyno is a lttle bit different and gives you different readings and they can play with the reading to make it look...well whatever you want to hear sometimes.

For what it is worth from listening hard to everyone like Greg Schroeder, Karl Bebout and Vettestr, most all have run good times at Speedworld (low 11s and 10 second club), it all depends on tires and proper set up. If you can get off the line without breaking something.

On the track ask Gordon, Mulv, BP Williams about set ups and tires again. Gordon can tell you better then I but I am pretty sure a small block car set up right will blow the socks off a big block not set up right with the right driver. (Not me) Right Gordon?

I have beem a passemger with Gordon on the old Luke Air Force base road course. What a blast. Couldn't do that myself. (We were asked to leave the course). Then there was that guy "Bart" (Dam nice levy engine) with his silver car.

Your black car is dam nice looking by the way and nice to meet you again the other night. We are all jealous...

My other suggestion is take that car out to Bondurant and take the 4 day Grand Prix Class and use your car the 2nd and 3rd day. You will have the time of your life. If you go call me. I would just like to watch.

csx4910 · #39 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 11:44 PM

Fitz,
Thank you for the kind words about my car. I have worked all my life to be able to buy a car like this and consider myself to be very fortunate. I am jealous of the guys that have had the opportunity to build theirs themselves. i lack that talent myself.

I believe you have Spooky mixed up with me (although I am sure he is better looking) Our cars look similar with the difference being I was fortunate to get my car back and his motor is being pulled to send back to Roush. Once it gets back I would love to try to get all of us that have the same engine together since I beleive that Anthem may of installed serial number 1,3, and 5 of that engine. I do plan on doing Bondurant as soon as possible to see how well the car performs at its limits (and to increase my own limits)
Ron

Fitz · #40 (**permalink**) 10-13-2008, 11:55 PM

Whoa! You know I have AD ADAA ADA ADIA....
Sorry about that. If you do go to Bondurant I still would like to go. Excuse to drive the car down there and watch you spin out a few times. Not fun unless you do that on the first curve hill...