Butler Transmission Tunnel

[65 Blur]

These beauties were designed to accommodate an automatic transmission and a bunch of set-back. The result is a huge tunnel and very tight pedal / side leg area. I sat in Mike Monster's Arntz and could not even get my knee past the steering wheel.

With the T-5 in, there is a cavern of space. My question is if anyone has cut out the tunnel and reduced the size to get some more room. The fellow that did my paint / body work seemed to think it would not be too much of a project (he could not get into my car - 6'4").

As you can see from the pic below, there is some nice stitched leather on top. If I do this, my thought was to maintain the angles and fold over the leather.

Thoughts / opinions / advice?

[decooney]

Hi Roy,
you might be able to get one of the manufacturers to sell you their removable tunnel and adapt it. My ERA has a removable tunnel. Several other cars do too... Also, you might be able to gain some more room up under the dash to fit a fire extinguisher too - if you needed to.

PhotoGuy's (Alan's Arntz/Butler) is removable and he ended up making a few mods and added some nice insulation as well. What you might consider is saving the original one, keep it in tact, and make complete new tunnel from scratch. Any good interior shop could make or duplicate the top cover. Also, if you needed or wanted to move / adjust your shifter location fore/aft or side to side, this would be a good time to do it. See Ya. Good Luck.

[Chifo]

Roy:

Believe it or not, I actually narrowed my footboxes to accomodate the width of my 351C and enable me to mount the engine more aft. I did leave the trans tunnel the same width but I can say that with the body off it is a pretty straightforward and easy task. Body on could be a mess. While I dont mean to contradict others opinions, I would think thru the removal of the glassed in tunnel as it appears to add some rigidity to the interior tub.

[Fred Douglass]

..I was thinking of modifying the same area. I'm fairly experienced with fiberglas and I was thinking that cutting aeway on the sides--undercutting the "saddle" top of the tunnel a bit. This would give you knee room---if your legs didn't need to be bent too much. The reason I'm thinking of doing this is I don't want to curl the saddle down. I know this might work for you, but I'm going to try it both ways. My legs are quite straight and clear under the wheel easily. They would also clear under any cantilevered edge of the tunnel. The pedal-box is a problem--even though it's offset is only about and inch and a half. Mine seats down between the frame-rails. I'm toying with the idea of cutting the pedal shafts and siamesing them to the right. Right now the pedal offset is 1.5 inches. I'm shooting for 0.0"!
I asked several guys why this car was set up for an automatic. They didn't know. I'm going to ber in contact with Ron Butler later this month and I'll get the whole scoop. Blessed are me with the short (but sexy) "gorilla legs"...

Good luck.

[Monster]

I've been away fix'in stuff on my car so I was just catching up on this discussion.
I had looked at my tunnel when I was buildin up the car thinking that I could make it narrower But............I seem to remember that I after looking more (I did a lot of looking during my build...probably why it took so long) anyway, I noticed that changing the tunnel would only really give me more space from the firewall back to the front of the seat (though it would lower the tunnel as well) and that really wouldn't accomplish much since the footboxes would still be the same forward of the firewall due to engine placement. I tried to draw a picture to show what I'm talking about but I will have to try tonight to place it here.

well back to work..................
Mike

[Fred Douglass]

...I just blasted around the block and discovered that the huge central tunnnel sorta helps me stay "planted" in the cockpit---and---it IS the insides of the footboxes (NOT the tunnel) which I'm going to modify (in order to get me legs/feet more "straight ahead"). I'm contemplating modifiying the pedal-shafts to set them to the center, or right, more. That's my only beef with the driver's positioning. My engine's only got the stock (c. 11" setback) but I am AMAZED at what a difference it makes (having driven two ERAs and two SPFs on the sharp twisties of the outer Cape). Butlers are basically a different car--just as Ron Butler said. I found that the aftward shift of the block makes the steering quicker and lighter. Also, I found the transition from about 1/2 turn left to 1/2 turn right (or vica versa) had muchless of that "insipient understeer" fell. I HAVE "frisbeed" the Butler "mid-engine" roadster on a wet (and abondonned!) parking lot near Santa Barbara. Wow!

I'm keeping the engine and the console (top o' the trannie hump) "stock" and just cutting the footboxes maybe a 1/2 inch. It might not be worth it---bending the pedal shafts might be the cheapest and easiest way top center my footsies.

[65 Blur]

I see your point Mike. Although my engine is not quite as far back, the biggest potential is from the firewall back. The challenge is to make it "look" proportional, be structurally sound, and gain the room I need. My main issue is in the knee / steering wheel area, and lowering / narrowing the tunnel would allow me some movement there.

Fred,
The pedals on mine are as far to the right as possible, and the footbox is about 1/4" from the back header - no room to move there. How are your going to do it?

[Fred Douglass]

..BUT mine is new (fresh from Ron Butler), and I noticed that the guide-tube or gudgeon for the pedal-rod is set to the left WITHIN the box itself. Inother words, it's longer on the left than on the right...I know I may not be able to reverse the box left-for-right...but my gas pedal is going to be 2.5 inches from the foot-box wall. It is therefore about 2 inches to the left of its "normal" position. It's just BARELY 1/4 to the right of "dead ahead". I am thinking of making bends (or weldments to achieve the equivalent) in the pedal shafts. I know I can't convey this verbally---I'll keep ya posted though.

Yours and Mike Monster's are the "class of the class"! Really.

[decooney]

Originally posted by 65 Blur


My main issue is in the knee / steering wheel area, and lowering / narrowing the tunnel would allow me some movement there.

Hi Roy / 65Blur,

You may already be aware of this, on some of the Arntz/Butler cars, the pedal box is adjustable fore/aft. If you are short on pedal room and if it helps your knees some more, lift your carpet and see if your pedal box can go to the next set of mounting holes towards the firewall. We did this for PhotoGuy/Alan, and he is pretty streched out now. Let me know. See Ya. Duane

[65 Blur]

Duane,

Thanks for the advice but...we already checked and the clutch pedal is almost touching the back of the box when pushed in. I believe that it is as forward as possible in the pedal box. I just have too much leg (35" inseam). When I put my left foot beside the clutch pedal, I can almost straighten it out. It's my damn right leg that gives me fits, glued to one position with no room for relief.

Not that I am complaining...I would rather be driving the Butler and fighting leg cramps, or just getting out and enjoying the surroundings every hour, than almost anything

Fred, thanks for the compliment - I am sure that when yours is complete, with as much time / work you are putting in, you will move to the top of the class.

[decooney]

Hi Roy,
Just to be sure we are referring to the same thing, I am not referring to pedal adjustment, but instead movement of the entire pedal box itself. Is this what you already did?.

When you mentioned the pedal touching the back of the box ("in the pedal box"), it made me think you are still not moving the box itself. There should be pre-drilled mounting holes in the frame for fore/aft positioning of the entire box itself; not touching the pedals at all.

e.g. unbolting the "entire" pedal box from the frame, pedals, lines and everything included move with it in the box, and it can be moved forward or backward about 4" in either direction on some/most Butler/Arntz cars.. Let me know if we are talking the same thing. One of the coolest features on these cars...

[65 Blur]

You are correct sir. The clutch pedal is actually almost touching the footbox. Thanks for the follow-up.

[Bluesman]

The tranny tunnel was designed that wide to allow the engine
heat to exit more efficiently. By narrowing it, the foot boxes will
be more confortable, however, they might be a little warmer also.