Modification plates

[07cob]

Merv

As Steve (Slowy) points out, there is clearly no standard approach across the country to ICV approvals and the same applies to modifications. While there are ADRs and national standards, there appears to be nothing to ensure all states and territories adopt any of these. Honestly, I don’t see this changing in the near future.

In searching around, I found this reference on boostcruising.

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/...owtopic=472350

I know it is not a definitive source of fact but it does provide some good information and references, particularly the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (Feb 2006):

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa.../vsb_ncop.aspx

There are a number of documents on this page relating to construction and modification of Light Vehicles (even a few specifically relating to ICVs). Specifically, the document below includes information about supercharging and turbo charging (modification code LA3) – see page 22.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...s_3Feb2006.pdf

The requirements outlined are basically compliance with ADRs for emissions and exhaust noise as well as heat shielding, modified bonnets and drive belts. There are also some requirements around Mandatory Upgraded Safety Equipment (including requirements for Seatbelts, Windscreen wipers, Demister, Rear vision mirror … ?!?!?!?!).

Queensland Transport also has some documentation about Light Vehicle Modifications in this document:

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso..._vehicles2.pdf

Superchargers and turbochargers fit into the Complex category and require approval from either Queensland Transport or an Approved Person (p23). On p24, “The minimum tandards for all of these modifications are contained in the Code of Practice – Light Motor Vehicle Modifications.” This information can be found on this page:

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home...ractice/#light

In particular this document:

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso...n2_feb2004.pdf

which outlines reasons for rejection of modifications. Unfortunately, there is little or no reference to any ‘minimum standards’ relating to supercharging in this document.

It is worth pointing out that many of these documents include a disclaimer that the information included cannot be used as a point of law. Note also that these documents are dated. There is no way to tell whether or not these have been superseded with others.

So, given the inconsistent approach across the country and the vague documentation provided by QT, I reckon the KB supercharger would easily be approved by an ‘Approved Person’. If it approved, then it should be OK. If no approval exists and the vehicle is questioned …??$?$?$??

The boostcruising post also refers to a QT Modification Hotline (32534851), which I will ring later this morning to ask who might be able to approve engine mods (heads, cam, supercharger) and I will let you know how it goes.

From everything I have read, have an authorisation from an ‘Approved Person’ (not necessarily an engineer) for any ‘modification’ would be the way to go.


My 2.2c.

Geof

[Merv and Sharon]

Yes Geof, there is a morass of regulation in this whole area. It is less clear at a national level, as States continue to vary. The Ford Mustang 5.0L was in some cases originally fitted with a supercharger as an 'option' as well, thus that could qualify under the guidelines. I am still debating this one in my mind as I have the advice from my insurance company and the engineer that is quite supportive. I am not anxious to return to Queensland Transport for another inspection of anything! We all have traumatic memories of that initial experience - regardless of the outcome.

Similarly, I am advised that performance enhancing changes to heads, cam and/or the original induction system would normally alter the stock form of the motor and also emissions and could be in clear breach unless inspected by (less clear 'who', but I assume this to be approved engineer) the "approved person".

With all these issues in mind (I am quite happy with the answers I got from my insurance company), one would do nothing to modify the motor from its stock presentation - or alter the suspension ride height below 100mm. I wonder how many cars would be off the road with that one?

[07cob]

Merv

I rang the QT Mod Hotline who were 'unable to take my call at this time'. I will 'try again later'.

The references in the documentation to performance enhancements being offered by the manufacturer are interesting. Given that you are the manufacturer of the vehicle and I am sure you considered a supercharger as an option - this then would surely comply ??!?!

Geof

[Merv and Sharon]

It was an option on the original motor and - It's the only car I ever built too!

Blue Power in Melbourne are the Aussie agents for KB.

[07cob]

Merv

I got onto QT and the response was reasonably clear. I will summarise the information provided to me by QT.

* Any minor modifications require no approval. This might include a cold air intake, headers or upgraded ignition system. Nothing that would produce a total power increase of 10% (magic figure) from the manufacturer.
* Modifications that increase power by more than 10% REQUIRE APPROVAL - regardless of what they are. A supercharger and Aluminium Heads both fit into the same category here - Modification Code LA1.
* Approval for modifications under LA1 can be done by an Approved Person and do not specifically require QT or engineer inspection.
* Any modification must remain within limits of power increase for any given vehicle. Increases in power beyond these limits will require further modifications to other vehicle components (e.g. brakes). Approved persons can advise and approve these further modifications.
* Information relating to what power increase limits are and what is and is not allowed is included in QT documentation that is not publically available. Approved Persons have access to this information.
* Changes will be made from the beginning of 2011 whereby the mod codes and the approval process is being reviewed.

I have information on Approved Persons in your area – I will send you an email.

Cheers

Geof

[Merv and Sharon]

Thanks again Geof. The more you know ... the more you don't know about this! Any changes to heads, cam or boost require approval. What would the approved person do? Measure emissions? That has never been done in QLD before to my knowledge. One could really open up a whole can of worms with this second inspection process, as you could find your motor never was compliant in the first place.

Mass-Flo - well that may be too obvious as well without approval.

However, the supercharger could still be on my choice list. If stopped for a police inspection then I can always say there was one there (it was an option) that I replaced with an equivalent.

Or do nothing ....

Merv

[07cob]

Merv

My understanding from the gentleman I spoke to at QT was that the Approved Person would ensure that the power to weight ratio of the vehicle did not increase beyond some limit (not supplied) from its original ratio.

I think the Approved Person is really the one to talk to. Given the flexibility of the Approved Person's interpretation of the state's individualised view on the vague national guidelines and ADRs, I think a carton of beer would be in order for the heads and cam, two cartons for the supercharger. I will try to talk to an Approved Person down here when I get a chance.

Clear as mud.

Cheers

Geof

[spookypt]

I often wonder about this question regarding emissions compliancy......

* If you put 25000Kms on an unmodified HSV Clubsport and then re-measure its emission levels would it still meet spec???????

I have doubts......

About the only good thing Copenhagen did was get Rudd's face out of mine! Cost all of us 1.5 million for giving us this pleasure though!

At least the new project doesn't have to meet emissions, noise OR have to comply with too bloody much!

SpookyPT.

[boxhead]

Must be circuit only then?

Or an older vehicle?

Come on Matt, give us a bigger clue.

[spookypt]

OK OK, here's a pic of the um..err...whachamethink ya call it!

THINGO.... Helps with lubrication of the smokey ole Windsor! Yep, it's FORD powered!.....!



Sorry for the hijack! Blame Boxy!

[stephen low]

Merv

Geof's on the right track - just get the right person's approval signature on the right form and the bureacrats can only but rubber stamp the modifications!

Slo

[Merv and Sharon]

Yes Stephen, I called the QT 'approved person' this afternoon and he said that with new heads, cam and Mass-Flo he does not need to see the car, according to his instructions from QT as these are within the car's original design and should not add too much power (?). For a supercharger such as the Kenne Bell he does, but only needs to see it to ensure it is fitted correctly - generally well done - and to check to make sure that the brakes and suspension are not insufficient. That is no drum brakes and no emission testing. He then issues a compliance plate.

[750hp]

Originally Posted by 07cob

My 2.2c.

Geof

Mate - I'd give you a whole dollar for your 2.2c worth of research. Thanks for all the links. Very interesting reading. I'm especially intrigued by the use of the terms "discouraged" and "not recommended" in relation to some key areas. Seems to me that if you can back up your idea with sufficient supporting documentation for the approving officer, it's possible to gain certification for some pretty cool mods!




...or is that just wishful thinking?

[Blair]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Yes Stephen, I called the QT 'approved person' this afternoon and he said that with new heads, cam and Mass-Flo he does not need to see the car, according to his instructions from QT as these are within the car's original design and should not add too much power (?). For a supercharger such as the Kenne Bell he does, but only needs to see it to ensure it is fitted correctly - generally well done - and to check to make sure that the brakes and suspension are not insufficient. That is no drum brakes and no emission testing. He then issues a compliance plate.

That is pretty much what I thought. QLD Transport really only care if adding a supercharger will have a negative effect on emissions. If your documentation shows that the engine modifications do not have this negative effect, you are 90% of the way there.

I know KBs come with this type of paperwork.

[Merv and Sharon]

Thanks Blair. That is interesting. U have a nice installation there ! Did it make a difference? Did u get an additional compliance plate? Merv

[07cob]

Originally Posted by 750hp

Seems to me that if you can back up your idea with sufficient supporting documentation for the approving officer, it's possible to gain certification for some pretty cool mods!

...or is that just wishful thinking?

Craig

That is certainly the impression I get from QT and from what the Approved Person Merv spoke to as well.

Of course, all of this must be within limits. I queried the QT bloke about the limits and he said that they would not provide these to the public, but the Approved Persons were aware of them. He also suggested that acceptance may be provided beyond these limits if relevant upgrades are also completed. Again, Approved Persons can advise on these.


Cheers

Geof