High Oil Temperature.

[macloft]

Hi Baz I can not comment on the oil temp however I use an oil cooler on mine.
However how does the triptronic gearbox go. Does it down and upshift quickly and cleanly. Are you happy with it so far. I am seriously thinking about a 6 speed triptronic box. If only the one in my XF Jag would fit.
Bruce

[Baz]

Originally Posted by macloft

Hi Baz I can not comment on the oil temp however I use an oil cooler on mine.
However how does the triptronic gearbox go. Does it down and upshift quickly and cleanly. Are you happy with it so far. I am seriously thinking about a 6 speed triptronic box. If only the one in my XF Jag would fit.
Bruce

Thanks Bruce,

My 'Drive Around' is a current model HSV Grange with an LS2 and 6 speed Tiptronic. It is a fabulous car and really performs despite its weight of almost 1900 kgs. I thought, "How good would it be to have this setup in a Cobra?" My RMC weighs 700 kgs less than the HSV.

While I haven't really given it to the Cobra yet, as she only has a little over 200 k's on the clock and running around on Unreg. permits, I have, on occasions, stepped on the HSV so I can only comment on its performance.

It actually launches off the line really well. First and second are quite short, but then it gets it's legs when it reached third. The Torque Converter copes easily with a 4,500 rpm launch which I normally do in 'Drive' then click over to Tiptronic for the remainder of the run.

Just google '6L80E Transmission' and you can get the ratios.

When driven normally, I defy anyone to pick the gear changes.

The Cobra however, created a few problems. I searched everywhere, including the USA for someone who had installed a 6L80E into a Cobra... No Result, so it looks like I have the only one that I know of.

The problems arrived by virtue of the security systems which are normally built into vehicles like my HSV. The 6L80E Transmission has its own ECU which runs through everywhere including the sound system, ignition, air bags, ESC, security system etc etc. What we had to do was convince the Transmission that these items were present on the car, even though they weren't, a huge electronics nightmare. I was wishing at this stage that I would have installed a 6 speed manual.

Jimmy and Justin from Sideshow's Performance Tuning in Sydney came to the party and designed a series of micro switches to trick the transmission into believing that it had all those things mentioned earlier.

Everything seems to be workling fine at the moment, but only time will tell. Let me get some race days under my belt and a few thousand k's and ask me then.

Hope this helped you out.

Baz

[Krait]

Bruce,

While you're in the USA check out TCI Auto they have an aftermarket ECU for the 6L80E http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Electronics/. How effectively it really integrates with the GM engine ECU would be the question, though the blurb sounds encouraging.

Be good to get some real feedback.

Cheers

[Aussie Mike]

Hi Baz,

The LSx engines do seem to run quite warm. A lower temp thermostat was a popular mod.

Your engine is also a new crate motor and as such will have tight clearances inside. Tighter clearances mean more heat from friction. The rings will probably not be fully seated yet and there will be a bit of combustion pressure and heat leaking past the rings and generating more heat in your motor rather than going out the exhaust.

Once it's well run in the oil temps should improve but I think an oil cooler is a must for any LSX that sees track time. A few spirited runs away from the traffic lights or a blast up the freeway on ramp will not add a lot of extra heat to the oil. However sustained high speed laps on a track will see a bit more heat soak into the oil. This has been found by a few who have run these motors on the track.

The only way the oil has of cooling down in your motor is running across the inside surfaces of the block and that heat in turn being taken away by the engine cooling system. The cooling system really only takes care of the heat in the cylinder heads and the upper cylinder walls.

The solution is to pump the oil out of the block and through it's own cooling system. Done properly it needs to have it's own thermostat too since the oil needs to get to operating temp as quickly as possible to do it's job.

Phil Neall has done a terrific job of plumbing an oil cooler into his CR. He can probably give you all the details on it if you PM him. I made a super low profile oil filter adapter for him that keeps the large #10 lines and fitting up out of the way. I plan to duplicate his setup on mine and have sourced most of the parts already.

Cheers

[macloft]

Sorry about stealing your thread Baz. Thanks for the gearbox reply Baz and Krait. The short time I actually drove my cobra with the auto I really felt it when it changed down when pushed. The whole engine just revved then the box changed and it just lurched. (not a nice feeling) I will keep an interested eye on how you progress Baz I am bloody impressed with your car, good work. Krait I have looked at the TCI unit and i get mixed replies some say it is good for road driving but if you want to flog it the change times are ordinary. Personally I like paddle shifters and the TCI looks like it might work. The six speed like Bazs would be a good addition also i think.
Cheers
Bruce

[Baz]

Thanks for the info Mike. As usual, you make heaps of sense. Appreciate your help. Will adopt a few of those ideas.

Baz

[750hp]

Haha - good memory OZ!

Baz - here's a datalog from my Ford powered Cobra when I decided to drive it to work one day, and was stuck in stop start traffic for nearly an hour. Solid roller cams love that stuff...! I didn't run an oil cooler, but I had a trans cooler. It shows how the oil averaged at least 5 degrees higher temps than the water, but it fluctuated a lot more as well.

Looking at the inputs on the chart on the right hand side, one of the numbers stood out as most unusual for a 1 hour+ drive. Can anyone pick it???

[lovehamr]

That is pretty obvious. @ about 1400 the trans temp dropped, the water temp spiked up and the oil temp spiked up as well. Pretty neat readout.

Steve

[750hp]

Nah - I think that was when I stopped in at the local shop to buy a drink... Trans cooled down with the engine turned off, but the engine heat-soaked the other fluids.

I'm thinking more about the other logged info on the right (not to hijack an interesting thread of Baz's, but I must admit that it showed remarkable restraint in my driving style that day...!)

[gjkrv8]

MAX RPM of only 3625 - Very sedate :-)

Rgds

Gregg

[boxhead]

Yes stand out is low max rpm, also a very low average rpm.

I was looking for WOT output and waiting to see that at a max 60% or something, now that would have suprised me.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Krait

Bruce,

While you're in the USA check out TCI Auto they have an aftermarket ECU for the 6L80E http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Electronics/. How effectively it really integrates with the GM engine ECU would be the question, though the blurb sounds encouraging.

Be good to get some real feedback.

Cheers

I have looked right into the TCI controllers and paddle shifters (might have even bought one) and the controller does not interface with the standard GM PCM.
It is a completly stand alone unit. You can buy ready made looms to suit GM Ford or Mopar applications and 'piggy back' leads for things like throttle position ect.
Should be a good thing once it is up and going.

[sambo]

Regarding oil coolers, has anyone tried the units from ASE? I bookmarked their website a while ago - Aussie made and reasonably priced. I phoned them a few months ago and the guy said they can pretty much do any shape/size to fit a Cobra.

http://www.aseturbo.com/html/oil_coolers_.html



They also do power steering tanks, catch cans, etc.

Here's the VE range: http://www.aseturbo.com/holden/ve-commodore/cat_52.html

[stumpeater]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

Hi Baz,

The LSx engines do seem to run quite warm. A lower temp thermostat was a popular mod.

Your engine is also a new crate motor and as such will have tight clearances inside. Tighter clearances mean more heat from friction. The rings will probably not be fully seated yet and there will be a bit of combustion pressure and heat leaking past the rings and generating more heat in your motor rather than going out the exhaust.

Once it's well run in the oil temps should improve but I think an oil cooler is a must for any LSX that sees track time. A few spirited runs away from the traffic lights or a blast up the freeway on ramp will not add a lot of extra heat to the oil. However sustained high speed laps on a track will see a bit more heat soak into the oil. This has been found by a few who have run these motors on the track.

The only way the oil has of cooling down in your motor is running across the inside surfaces of the block and that heat in turn being taken away by the engine cooling system. The cooling system really only takes care of the heat in the cylinder heads and the upper cylinder walls.

The solution is to pump the oil out of the block and through it's own cooling system. Done properly it needs to have it's own thermostat too since the oil needs to get to operating temp as quickly as possible to do it's job.

Phil Neall has done a terrific job of plumbing an oil cooler into his CR. He can probably give you all the details on it if you PM him. I made a super low profile oil filter adapter for him that keeps the large #10 lines and fitting up out of the way. I plan to duplicate his setup on mine and have sourced most of the parts already.

Cheers

Where do you pick up the oil flow that you send to the cooler on the LSX motor? Is there an adapter that picks it up from the filter? I was not going to worry too much about an oil cooler, as I reckon a V8 Auto Commodore full of Mum and the kids dragging a 6 metre caravan up a Snowy Mountain Road in an Aussie summer would be much harder on the donk than anything I will ever do even on the track!

[Aussie Mike]

You can buy oil filter adaptors to suit the LS1. Unfortunately most seem to make it difficult to use AN swivel fittings with nice bends to reduce restriction. They end up hanging below the sump where they are easily snagged (not a good thing to have happen). It can also be difficult to get larger line sizes connected to them.

I came up with this setup shown on an LS2 Corvette sump which is significantly lower profile than the Commodore sump. These are AN #10 fittings.





Here's the inside showing the O ring seal etc


I reckon you would be surprised at the oil temps in the Commodore towing the van. I don't think they are shown on any gauge nor are they monitored by the ECU. Also pulling it up a hill won't be done with your foot flat to the boards on and off for an hour as you would circulating a track.

Cheers

[stumpeater]

Nice piccies Mike, so you have a remote filter as well??

[richardferguson]

Originally Posted by 750hp

Haha - good memory OZ!

Baz - here's a datalog from my Ford powered Cobra when I decided to drive it to work one day, and was stuck in stop start traffic for nearly an hour. Solid roller cams love that stuff...! I didn't run an oil cooler, but I had a trans cooler. It shows how the oil averaged at least 5 degrees higher temps than the water, but it fluctuated a lot more as well.

Looking at the inputs on the chart on the right hand side, one of the numbers stood out as most unusual for a 1 hour+ drive. Can anyone pick it???

Is "F Used" Fuel? If so, it seems a lot
Get an oil cooler Baz. You'll be amazed at the difference!

[Rob. Smith]

Tight bends like those on the earls fittings are bad for flow and temperature control...they actually create or at least sustain heat. Not much can be done about this so the next best thing is Monitoring..Make sure your gauges read actual temps ..etc and not a general reading. Just my 02. cents worth....read "Engineer to win"