Am I being ripped off?

Baz · #1 (**permalink**) 08-07-2010, 10:13 PM

The LS2 ECU in my Cobra has a unique Corvette tune. It would appear that every time an auto electrician or dyno operator wants to unlock my ECU, I am charged a VCM Suite ECU unlock fee. My ECU has been accessed twice so far by different specialists. The first time, I had to pay a $200 fee.

The second time when I had it on the Dyno left me scratching my head, even though it was with a different specialist.

The car was on the Dyno last week to sort out some shifting problems with the 6 speed Tiptronic and adjust pressures in the transmission solenoids. The ECU Access Fee this time was $360.

Am I being ripped or does this con occur every time that someone accesses my ECU?

I have an LS2 with an identical transmission in my WM HSV Grange. The only difference between it and the Cobra is that the Cobra has had the Corvette tune inserted into it. When a GM Dealer uses his Tech 2 to access my ECU on the Grange, I am not charged a fee.

Can someone please tell me where is the difference here?

Baz

Rob. Smith · #2 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 02:10 AM

I can't help you with the ECU access. Maybe seek info in the USA there must be some program somewhere. This sounds like a typical case of..."he owns a cobra so he is loaded"
When I was buying parts for my car I never told them what it was for. Sometimes I rang back after I bought the part and asked for a price for the part 'for my Cobra' and it was much more expensive.

Rwillia4 · #3 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 02:30 AM

yep you're getting taken. The only "unlock" you need is the software and hardare interface, which they obviously have or you wouldn't be at their shop. ...other than that it is just 1's and 0's. There is no mysterious database of paricular chips being unlocked as they are produced in the 100's of thousands if not millions.

Tenrocca · #4 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 02:59 AM

I'm sure someone can explain it better then I, but my understanding is that the software that access your ecu to put the tune in need to buy an access license for each ecu it accesses. Take it back to the same guy, and you shouldnt be charged an license fee each time, maybe just a fine tune fee. Ive had little done to mine since the initial stuff, had to send it back once and he made a few mods for free.

Gav · #5 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 03:18 AM

Baz,
HP tuners which is the software I have has a system where by when the software is purchased you can choose how many credits for different PCMs you require.
Some tuners will have a blanket purchase where they have unlimited access to a particular model PCM or multiple model PCM's.
You may assume that since you are a new customer each time, the tuner has charged a fee for the credits required to access your PCM. I would also assume that if you returned to either of these guys you would not be charged again as you have already paid for the access to your tune, the serial #'s for your PCM will be registered on their computer.

So no I would not think you are being ripped, but however if you continue swapping tuners you will continue being charged an access fee.

boxhead · #6 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 03:57 AM

As has been said Baz, stick with one tuner.
Each time you go to a different guy he has to pay to access your ecu, if you pay it once at one place then he has access to it without having to pay for another licence, but if you go to a new guy, he has to pay for a licence so his hardware can access your ecu.
As Gav said, if you go back he should only be billing for labour time, as he already has a licence to access your ecu.

Baz · #7 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 04:08 AM

Thanks fellas for your input. You really are a valuable resource.

My wife once said "If you have a problem, just come and talk it over with me
dear. " I tried that out tonight, but I think I lost her when I mentioned ECU Licenses."

You blokes were my next line of enquiry.

I think I will contact the Dyo man tomorrow and try to establish some guidlines. I will post his response if anyone here is interested, for future reference.

Baz.

Gav · #8 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 04:37 AM

I think if you just ask him to explain his charges, a reputable technition will be very upfront and explain what is involved.

boxhead · #9 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 05:16 AM

Best thing is to find a guy your happy with (tuner) and stick with him.
If your not happy with your current tuner then go to ls1.com.au and see what people are saying about tuners in your area.

Or buy your own tuning equipment, a few in here have done that and I will be too.

sambo · #10 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz

It would appear that every time an auto electrician or dyno operator wants to unlock my ECU, I am charged a VCM Suite ECU unlock fee.

[..snip..]

When a GM Dealer uses his Tech 2 to access my ECU on the Grange, I am not charged a fee.

Baz, perhaps there is there a difference between 'unlock' and 'access' when it comes to your ECUs?

Eg, I suspect in the first instance you're talking about modifying the tune, whereas in the second case they're merely reading and/or clearing error codes as part of a standard service?

Merv and Sharon · #11 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 05:33 AM

Even with the recent hassles I have had with my Ford ECU (A9P versus A9L in another post), I could buy a new ECU with the access fee they are charging you Baz. And I got a code reader/clearer for $25. Perhaps as Dave suggests there is some gear you can buy to at least keep track of the tune in the motor in the future?

boxhead · #12 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:03 AM

http://www.hptuners.com/order.php

You can do more than clear or check codes.

This is the same as the shops use to do your car, they buy multiple credits.
I am not sure of the exact numbers but different spec LS engines (and auto) use different quantities of the credits.
You will also need a laptop, as I have said I do not have one yet but my understanding is that they are pretty easy to use and they walk you through all changes you make.

Baz · #13 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 03:46 PM

I have only used one Tuner and that was the guy who accessed the Transmission Computer t rectify a few shifting problems. I will be using the same guy to Dyno tune the engine when I finally get it through the RTA registration process.

On the other and initial occasion that I had to pay the fee, was to a different person for a different reason. They were accessing the ECU to investigate some performance wiring issues.

It seems odd to me that one charges $200 and the other $360. I mightn't be the sharpest spade in the shed, but that doesn't seem right to me.

I'll let you know after I speak to the tuner today.

Baz

boxhead · #14 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 04:53 PM

Hmm, I am no expert, maybe he only needed 1 or 2 credits to access just the engine side of ecu, then second time needed more to access the rest (I honestly doubt this is the case), My gut feeling is that he is ripping money from your wallet.

Tenrocca · #15 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz

It seems odd to me that one charges $200 and the other $360. I mightn't be the sharpest spade in the shed, but that doesn't seem right to me.

I think different packages have different license fees though. HP Tuners license (or per ecu credit) I think is more expensive then EFI live - but them Im not sure if a ECU written by one can be accessed by the other either.

hsv300 · #16 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:22 PM

I have A Chevy Silverado when i got a bigger fuel tank (200L) i had to get the ECU reprogrammed for the larger tank using EFI Live got charged $180.00 for the License I ask about this and was told every time they make a change your get charged a License fee!!

alffie · #17 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:26 PM

Baz
Hes screwing you! You only need to use credits if you change the tune, if the previous tuner had "locked" the ECU. To just read codes and stuff you dont need credits. Once the tuner has applied credits to your ECU he doesnt need to anymore. He will "lock" your ECU so only HE can access your ECU without credits, so everytime you change tuners they will need to apply credits to "unlock" the ECU so they can change things.
To go back to the same tuner you should only be paying for Labour not credits.
Justin (double dip) is the best guy I have found for the GM ECUs, Hes the only one that I found that could easily set up stand alone ECUs.

stiffy · #18 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:27 PM

Guy's,

The HP Tune and EFI Live do not speak to each other.

You will need to detune the original system ( EFI or HP ) and set it to standard so the Tuner can access the ECU.

Find the Tuner of choice and stick with them.

IMO there cannot be too much difference between tunes. The motor has been around for ages and the Yanks know what they are going.

STIFFY

Baz · #19 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:42 PM

Contacted the dyno tuner and established that there has been an accounting error in my favour. The refund will be applied when I return the car for it's engine dyno from the same person.

I also have established that as everyone has stated, providing you use the same tuner, you only pay the fee once.

All is bright and rosy again. Thank you all for the valuable input. With the information provided on this thread, I was in a far better position to argue the toss with a positive result.

Baz.

Tenrocca · #20 (**permalink**) 08-08-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsv300

I have A Chevy Silverado when i got a bigger fuel tank (200L) i had to get the ECU reprogrammed for the larger tank using EFI Live got charged $180.00 for the License I ask about this and was told every time they make a change your get charged a License fee!!

Not right - if the same guy using the same copy of the software accesses the same ecu he dosnt have to buy a new credit of license just to make a change.