This is frightening

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

I agree fully Mike and Les. Telstra sale was a bad move all round. Now I feel sorry for all the pensioners who pay huge amounts to water their garden and go about their lives to private electricity and water companies. I would support a nationalisation of broadband access ...

Hey this is a Pool Room discussion now!

Merv and Mike, I totally agree except my feelings are it should go further. One can't pick the real difference between the parties now which leaves what many see as a safer vote for the Greens.

The Telstra "balls up" led to the what is now known as the Future fund to hold all those unwanted shares which the Government couldn't off load. ie The Public woke up that they were in fact buying what they already owned anyways and stopped buying. The generalm public were told the vehicle known as the Future fund was a necessity to provide for all the public servants who were at some time going to retire and want their Super and allowances.

What a heap of absolute bull $h*t. Any Government with a sovereign currency can easily afford their obligations in this regard at any future time.

It's the same whenever I hear the various pollies sprouting about deficits. They (successive Governments ) have educated the general public to hear "Debt" when they hear deficit.

Absolute bunkum!!!!.

[Rebel1]

I have already volunteered that I subscribe to the Keynesian theory of Economics. In other words Modern Monetary Theory .

Would you believe one of the worlds leading practitioners in this theory of Economists is Professor Bill Mitchell, an Australian. Bill Mitchell is the Research Professor in Economics and Director of the Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE) at the University of Newcastle, NSW Australia.

Read his blog here : http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/

Choose a subject on the right of the page and you'll find his views reflect all those fears that both Mike and Merv have addressed. He then goes on to explain why and how successive governments have gone wrong and what the solutions are.

Rant over.

[Merv and Sharon]

Right again Les. "Debt" has been the catch cry from both parties in the lead up to this election while ours is described as being 'miniscule' in historical and international terms by the IMF. Public asset ownership is the great loss of my generation. Mike, my step dad trained as a PMG engineer and fitter in the 40s and still has great technical skills at 90. He eventually became a Telecom state manager and left in disgust.

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Right again Les. "Debt" has been the catch cry from both parties in the lead up to this election while ours is described as being 'miniscule' in historical and international terms by the IMF.

Exactly Merv, but even the term deficit does not imply a debt to a nation with a sovereign currency. It does not mean the same as if we are discussing our household budgets. Although that's the way the pollies would like us to think.

A deficit is really nothing more than the shifting of currency from the Government to the private sector. ie. The Government spends $Billions on school halls and buildings and the NBN and by doing so sends the Budget into deficit.

But all that has happened is that that currency has been paid to builders and IT Companies in Australia, who pay their taxes out of profits, and pay wages to workers in Australia, who pay income tax and who race out and build cobras and guess where all that money ends up after filtering thru the system?. Back in Government Coffers. Every single dollar of it.

Deficit is an economic definition which does not mean "debt" as it does in the way it applies to personal financing.

[Rob. Smith]

Why are electricity prices going up ? 'To improve infrastructure" crap...to fix all the stuff they didn't maintain from way back in the days of downsizing. Downsizing was also a big player in the demise of telstra and many other companies. The result of an unimaginative government that just chose to 'copy' other countries. We'll be paying for this for years to come. Don't start me on clean coal that is the biggest "Sting" of all. Talk about fooling all the people all the time !

[BMK]

Rebel1

Les,

Hi mate. Long time since we talked.

Yes I was just parking my gas guzzler when I noticed a few people standing near the library I had a little look and there is was - something Green -

Take a look at their web site it is absolutely amazing. To think people will agree with this rubbish and cast their vote for them.

Whilst there is one or two things that make sense the rest is unbelievable....

What happened to Bob's idea or agreement to give his preferences to Labour.. No mention of that when I was listening.

[Rebel1]

Hi Bernie, Hope you and family are going well.

Mate, Whenever I see a pollie (don't care what party) doing their meet and greet, kiss the babies outings, I get the hell away because I just know I'm going to get into strife.

[Donunder]

It certainly is a scary thought that the Greens could hold the balance of power in the Senate. Scary, and I believe, a hijacking of the democratic system, when a party with way insufficent numbers to be a force on its own can prostitute itself and align itself with whomever panders to their frightening policies for short-term political advantage.

Could be worse though --- instead of the Greens it could be Steve Fielding and his nutbag Family First zealots. Imagine those crazies having the balance of power!

It all makes Pauline look like sweetness and light!

[Merv and Sharon]

As you say Don, it could be worse with the FF or Pokies guy holding the balance. Exactly what Rudd had to deal with.

[BMK]

It's both interesting and scary. In particular a steady economy that Bob Brown agrees to.

Put simply he does not want the economy to grow, but stay stable...

Hell is is GREEN or BROWN...

Sorry it is such a joke it is laughable.

However, just listen to people around us and you will hear so many say they are not happy with the current two Party situation, so will vote GREEN...

Told you it was frightening.....

[David Hodgson]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

I heard them talking on the radio the other day about a cash for clunkers scheme like they had in the US. The Gumm'nt gives you $2K for your old car so you can buy a nice new lower emissions one.Cheers

This scheme allows for 200,000 pre '95 vehicles. That is only 10% of the estimated 2million still on the road. Natural atrition would see 40 - 50 % off in say 3 years anyway. The $400 mil could be better used elswhere.

[Rebel1]

Gawd, Have I been getting mail re my comments on government deficit spending.
With all due respects to those of opposing views I suggest you read the following:
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=332

Hope this explains the concept a little more clearly.

[BMK]

Aaaah Socialism is great until we all run out of government money

[Merv and Sharon]

Lucky we haven't then. I think Norway is the only nation in "surplus" these days. Boy do they have big taxes! Still I did see a few Cobras there.

[Aussie Mike]

I'm not talking socialism, just having the utilities state owned. Back in the day when the Government owned them they all made a handy profit and that was money in the government coffers. Selling them was like killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Short term gain exchanged for long term pain.

[Ant]

Reading different posts the greens are extreme, but they wont get their way on old technology as they still have a right to be on the road the amount of polution from a few old classic vintage vehicles is neglible in the scheme of things. Techology is getting greener by the minute but obviously not quick enough for the treehuggers!

Make the most of it while you can though!

Originally Posted by BMK

Hi all,



I usually try to stay out of Threads, Posts and other forms of discussion on Religion or Politics.

But this just begs comment...

Yesterday I found my self nearby a Greens Party candidate in Portland Victoria. I had previously made mention of this person handing me a brochure and then stated that I was amazed at the time what I was given and reading.



But hell to listen to this candidate and friends talking, left me somewhat frightened by comments made.

Here are just a few of the comments that were made - I must say that not al were made by the candidate but some by friends supporters handing out material.

I will be brief -

here is basically what is being said....

Coal mine closure
Alternative power
Old so called aircraft, cars, motor cycle off the road entirely
Limited use of vehicles in cities
Price fuel to make it a non viable alternative to public transport or bikes
Business using fossal fuel to be closed or go to green fuels
Public transport the real alternative
Limit aircraft travel
Alternative power sources for all business
Carbon taxes on bigger business



The old car and motor cycles caught my interest.

Before I could ask the question, a Mum with her children asked how she would get around Portland and travel to Melbourne if she did not have her 1985 car.



That question was cleared up simply - The Greens would move to ban that car and you would have a better transport system.

I was shocked when a Greens supporter offered the comment that she should not be using her car, but alternatively be walking or using a bicycle.

I watched as the Mum pushed the pusher off with her small boy walking beside her. MMMMmm bright alternative.

This would be a joke if they were not getting more support.



But to hear Greens supporters and Greens candidates say that old cars would be off the road amazes me. This is not old cars that are un cared for but a blanket old car policy.

I asked what about collector vehicles.. The answer was both direct and simple.

"..we do not see collectors having any benefits that the general public don't have. Why should collectors be treated any differently they are a minority that should not be allowed to pollute"

I hope I quoted this accurately. I left before I said something I would regret....

I am not going to get Political but just say take a look at what these guys are saying. Unfortunately with the current state of play the Greens will have a lot more control and vote.

Just my $1.50 worth....

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by BMK

Aaaah Socialism is great until we all run out of government money

Ahmmm Bernie, define Socialism and exactly how does a Government with a sovereign currency run out of money?

[Merv and Sharon]

Yes, having medical support for millions of disadvantaged and elderly in the US was criticised as being socialism. Go figure. It is all relative to one's interpretation and state of need.

[Outwest34au]

my lesser fear is entire compliment of politicians will continue to carry on in a childish, incompetent, lying, self pocket lining manner in the time honoured fashion.

My greater fear is that them green hippy tree huggin carbon credit card loopies will take away my last true pleasure,

My battery hens



The black one was white until it failed basic polarity schooling.

[Merv and Sharon]

They probably think we are the "loopies". I am sure we are safe for quite a while yet. Not so sure about those hens, however. Battery hens?