Arntz vs RMC

[750hp]

Having pulled my car out of mothballs and moved it to higher ground with the rising flood levels,
today was a good time to get it beside Don's Arntz to compare the two.

Maybe it was also a chance to remind Don that while he has a legitimately registered big block,
there's another car in the family that should also go OK when it's back on the road...

It's interesting to see the differences in body shape between the red Arntz and the blue RMC bodies.
The shape of the front guard rises sharply away from the headlight on the Arntz, and is more gradual on the RMC.



There's something different about the bonnets, but I just can't put my finger on it...



Rear guards sit higher over the boot height on the Arntz



I love the bonnet cut-out that was designed by Arntz for access to the distributor on a Chev engine.
Crazy to think you are only arms length away from the distributor from the driver's seat...





Overall, despite the Arntz body being taken from a mold off CSX3193,
I think the RMC is a much more authentic looking car.
It's simple - the filler cap's in the right place!

[stefanog]

Hey Craig,

Not a huge difference between the two, nice to have a pair in the family to be able to do these comparisons!

Hope dad is enjoying the car, as I stated before, It's an awsome buy!

Good to have your one see the daylight again! I thought you sold it!

Stef

[AC-460]

Nice pair of snakes....
Not sure if the Red one is an Arntz though....
Mine is a HomeBush Fibreglass (one of Brians) its also an Arntz copy of that same CX car .....mine doesn't rise as high behind the head lights and the tail end on mine doesn't look as long...My wheel arches on the back don't rack back as far on the bottom either.....

[LoBelly]

Thanks for the pics Craig

Nice to get a side by side comparisons from trans pacific sources

I think the differences in bonnet profile might be attributed to the way the light reflects off the different colours...

LoBelly

[Donunder]

Originally Posted by AC-460

Not sure if the Red one is an Arntz though....

She sure is. Built and first registered in 1979. We have documents confirming its provenance.

You could have a look at this thread:
My new/ old Arntz.
It contains the following:

Nice Find!

Has all of the right signature bits too. ...Triangle Rollbar, correct stitched interior, correct dash, correct Nardi steering wheel, round barrel brass expansion tank, hoop bumpers, split bolt sidepipes... all the right stuff. Don't throw any of those items away - all key items for the car and its history.

If it has the Aldan rear street-rod style coilover shocks in it too, those might be better on a shelf and replaced with some QA1s or something, but otherwise totally cool. Congratulations, neat car!

.............................


We corresponded with two fellows in the US who are recognised Arntz/ Butler historians prior to buying the car. They both have no qualms in accepting this as a genuine early production Arntz.

I'm in the process of writing to two of the previous owners to find out more of the car's background. It's rare to have a Cobra of this age in the country so it will be interesting to learn more of her history.

[joyridin']

Did they fiberglass the rear quarter panel and move the gas filler to the center because of the location of your gas tank? Pretty neat set-up. Mine isn't like that.

The notched hood for the distributor only came on a few Type 3 and Type 4 cars. Most didn't have this. Nice car!!

[750hp]

Joyridin - We're over the moon with the quality of the car. I need to head over to Dad's place and get another set of keys cut. You never know when I might get to take it out for a sneaky blast over the nearby mountains while Dad's out of the house...!

From all of the images that I've seen of virgin unbuilt Arntz cars, there was no provision built into the body for a filler cap. From what I've been told and seen, most factory built cars had the filler cap located where Dad's sits - as per 289 Street Cobras...



Many home built Arntz didn't have an external filler cap fitted, and it seems that guys are fitting a 427 style filler cap in the rear quarter in subsequent rebuilds. I think what Dad and I like so much about this one is that it has lots of the signature pieces that make it instantly recognisable as an Arntz.

Here's a factory Arntz brochure from 1978. You'll see from the aerial photo that the factory demonstrator had the notched hood, forward braced roll bar and no external filler cap.


Dad, this brochure mentions "inlayed frame rails (optional) that contribute to solid front-to-back body rigidity" That explains the extra frame rails that we were looking at inside the sill panels...

Lobelly - yep the light is what makes the difference

[joyridin']

I went out and looked at mine. I guess I never noticed it, but you are correct. My filler was added later. This might be due to my frame set-up. Where your tank is mounted, my tank could not be mounted in that area due to the frame support hoop that runs through there. This was probably added as the car was raced for about 15 years before being turned into a street car. Mine is an Arntz with a Butler interior. The gentleman I bought my car from was the original owner. He bought the car from Steve Arntz. It was bought partially assembled as a prototype Type 4.

Good luck with your Dad's car!

[Rebel1]

Donunder & 750hp, If you compare the OD of the headlight trim rings at their widest point, you should find the Arntz to be .25" larger in diameter than the one on the RMC.

Approx OD Arntz = 8 3/8"
Approx OD RMC = 8 1/16"

Depending on the trim ring manufacturer, the Arntz trim ring should have a fixing screw thru the trim ring under the light lense and a pressed dimple on the top of the ring. The RMC is just a push on interference fit trim ring with no fixing screw and no dimple. (although some folks do drill the RMC trim rings).

Love the red car and love the green car Craig posted. Narrow hips and wire wheels. woohoo.

[SoTxButler]

Craig,

Thanks for the pictures....I like!!!!

[PCC]

I think some have missed something in this thread.....................

What's going under the hood Craig???

Good to see the 'Hot Rod' in fresh air again

[Merv and Sharon]

The green slabside 289 does look really great without the wheel arches or roll bars. It is such a shame that we can't get that model made here and that we all seem to have basically one shape available.

[Outwest34au]

That green car is just perfect. Nce and clean.
I have stumbled across a set of jag wire wheels that I am keen to see ASAP. At this stage I don't know how many spokes or the type of lacing, the guy that found them couldn't tell me if they are studded or knock offs so now I must wait.

I thought the difference in the bonnets might have been due to camera angle, but you probably have a better camera than my box brownie so maybe thats not it.

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Outwest34au

That green car is just perfect. Nce and clean.
I have stumbled across a set of jag wire wheels that I am keen to see ASAP. At this stage I don't know how many spokes or the type of lacing, the guy that found them couldn't tell me if they are studded or knock offs so now I must wait.

You can buy them new Outwast34au.
http://www.daytonwirewheels.com/wirewheels.html

or:

Here: http://www.borraniwheels.com.au/Gall...%20Bristol.htm

[750hp]

Les - interesting point about the headlight trim rings. I wasn't aware of that. And anyway, you love the red car and you love the green car - what about the blue one?!?

Pete - the car was out in the fresh air and there's currently fresh air under the hood. I'm still partial to a Ford engine...

joyridin - 15 years of racing is a great history for your car! Thanks for checking you filler cap.

Don's really excited to have found a 30+ year old car that (except for the wheels) looks like an Arntz time capsule and has already said that he'd be keen to find some of the original style wheels to complete the picture. Think of them as being to an Arntz what the Halibrand is to a CSX Cobra!

[Outwest34au]

Originally Posted by Rebel1

You can buy them new Outwast34au.
[and links

Yes Rebel, but as they say, money's tight and times are hard.
But; best part of these rims is they are local and a "deal" can be done. The deals I like best include chucking in a bit of this and bit of that and minimal cash. I have a shed full of '......ash is another mans treasure' so freeing up some space would be good too.

If the rims are not suitable I will have to do something with my 15" Dragway Cobra rims, they are the old version of the current ones they sell. Only problem is the rears have offset to suit shortened #rse end and I can't do that to mine easily as the radius rods have a channel they sit in, sunken into the glass floor. (and it opens up many other challenges $$$)
Might be a set up for sale at some stage.

"Approx OD Arntz = 8 3/8"
Approx OD RMC = 8 1/16" "

Interesting fact about the trims. Did they make them specially for Arntz? Can I assume they may not be the usual pommy sourced.


Craig, did you once have some large diameter piping under that 3 car garage bonnet? If so, I think an old mate of mine, Russel Williams may have been involved in it. Does that name ring a bell?
The gold wheels would look nicer IMH(umble)O. I aint a big fan of the modern blingy thing if thats the right word for the starfishies. What brand wheels are the gold originals? Were they 2 or 3 piece?

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Outwest34au

Craig, did you once have some large diameter piping under that 3 car garage bonnet? If so, I think an old mate of mine, Russel Williams may have been involved in it. Does that name ring a bell?

Yep, fair to say there was a bit of plumbing under there. The only Russell I know didn't have anything to do with the Mount Everest hood shape. Scott (OZVENOM) and I made it from scratch. Foam blocks, lotsa bog, an old Harwood scoop facing the wrong way, hours of forming and sanding, lungfuls of dust and fibres, and we had a plug! Scotty could tell you what material was used - I can't remember the name. It's glass, but it's a two-layer f'glass material which has little posts between them that become "erect" (for want of a better term!) when wet with resin. That pushes the two layers apart, making a stronger and lighter option than just adding layer upon layer of regular glass matting.

[boxhead]

From what I know regarding headlight trim rings, the Mini ones are larger and the MG ones are smaller.

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Outwest34au

Interesting fact about the trims. Did they make them specially for Arntz? Can I assume they may not be the usual pommy sourced.

No special Arntz versions and they are both standard pommy source.

The most common 7" headlight trim ring used is the standard MGB/TD/TF/MINI/JAG versions and this fits most replicas. However, there is another called the cobra trim ring. It is off some Pommy some thing or other. Maybe Healey (not sure).

Both types are for the standard 7" light but the cobra trim is too large in it's widest dimention. That's the part that lines up against the body.

See here: http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/lights_head.html

The Arntz I suspect uses the actual cobra trim ring at 8 3/8 OD.

[boxhead]

Mini and MGB are different sizes, I bought Mini ones and they are too big, then was told to get MGB, good fit with dimple at top and screw underneath.

The CR is built for the smaller ring.