Excess positive camber issue

[Outwest34au]

Hi all,
a quick check with a 90* set square today confirmed what I suspected. The right hand side front wheel has excess positive camber and no shims that I can remove to correct it.
Short of cutting off the end plate and rewelding it further inboard does anyone have any ideas on how I can correct the situation?
Are there camber kits that can dial this out? Are there adjustable top arms which exist that are legal to use?
Suspension is Jag XJ to the best of my knowledge.

All suggestions welcomed and appreciated.

[Rick Parker]

Cutting that and rewelding would appear to be a very easy solution, and the safest, AND least costly.

[Gav]

A few guys have fitted the factory five upper arms, they require welding to fit but allow infinite adjustment.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Outwest34au

Hi all,
a quick check with a 90* set square today confirmed what I suspected. The right hand side front wheel has excess positive camber and no shims that I can remove to correct it.
Short of cutting off the end plate and rewelding it further inboard does anyone have any ideas on how I can correct the situation?
Are there camber kits that can dial this out? Are there adjustable top arms which exist that are legal to use?
Suspension is Jag XJ6 to the best of my knowledge.

All suggestions welcomed and appreciated.

Hi yourself. Wouldn't really want to cut that end plate off and re-weld, would you? What is the history of the car? Was the camber OK at some previous time, and has that corner taken a biffo? If so, damaged upright might need replacing. Of upright is OK, can you shim out the bottom wishbone to achieve correct camber? Another alternative (if upright is OK and you can't shim the lower mount) could be to have a new wishbone mount (the bit that the wishbone 'arms' and bushes assemble to) machined up so that the threaded ends of this bit are closer in towards the centreline of the car. That shouldn't be to expensive. Need to use the correct steel though.
Cheers,
Glen

[Outwest34au]

Hi Glen,
the car has never been biffed, it has only done 1 km or so on the road in its entire life so far. It is a manufacturing defect.
If I was to shim out the bottom arm somehow the RHS wheel would ultimately stick out further than the left side.
I know in my heart that any bodgey fix its will affect the bump steer and suspension workings, so really relocating the bracket is the option.
I guess I just needed confirmation of this.

I just made a call to Frank from Gerada Engineering in Capella and as luck would have it he and his lovely wife both own cobras and are heading out this way for lunch. His workmanship is impeccable and if he suggests cut and re-glue it back on that is the way I will go. Talk about good timing with the phone call.
I will go measure up the shock mount and hope it doesnt need to be moved also.

If he turns up I will take and post a pic of his car.

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Gary
Had exactly the same problem with mine. Must have been the jigs at Evans.
We cut the plates off and moved them in both sides and rewelded but also gussetted them as well.

Cheers
Brett

[bobcowan]

Based on other measurements on the frame - and not just the tire camber - are you sure the frame is out of square? Could it be that the lower arm mounts are too far in?

In any cas, as said a bove an adjustable arm would be a nice upgrade, and will make alignment a breeze to do. FFR uses arms from Specialty Products Company. The street version has rubber bushings like yours. The racing version is probably easier to fit where youy want it to.

http://www.spcperformance.com/images...09_PerfCat.pdf

[renovationinnov]

i would check measure the chassic from centre to be sure that both sides are not positive /or neg while your at it
or worst case is the jig it was welded on had moved so then left is a heap neg
let use know what happened
ROB

[Outwest34au]

Thanks for the input Bob.
Those arms are a nice bit of gear and could be an option if I can't get expert welding help. I can weld by all means but would rather a true expert do the job.
I have measured from the flat mount plate back to the longitudinal rails and the RHS measures up at 10 mm or 3/8" roughly further out. IMO that is a huge F... up for a chassis builder.
I will keep SPCP in mind though,but I am not sure how much a band aid fix (allbeit a very nice one) will affect the handling.
If and when I ever sell this car I want to be sure it is built properly even if on a budget.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Outwest34au]

Originally Posted by renovationinnov

i would check measure the chassic from centre to be sure that both sides are not positive /or neg while your at it
or worst case is the jig it was welded on had moved so then left is a heap neg
let use know what happened
ROB

Hi Rob,
the LHS will be marginal 3mm negative with no shims at all. Of course I will have to allow some shimming for caster though which may pull it back less than 3 mm. Time will tell on that one.
If I had bulk negative it would not really be an issue (apart from centreline geometry) as it could easily be shimmed toward positive bias.

I ended up with the Evans kit after he split from Paul at W & E. Obviously this guy was pumping a few out and didn't have the same respect for quality build as Paul did/ does. I have spoke with Paul a few times but since my kit was after the split I am the owner of a bast*rd child. Nothing that cant be fixed, just sloppy at the factory or backyard colourbond shed or wherever he built them.
Appreciate your thought time though.
Cheers
Gary

[Outwest34au]

Just had a call from Frank, his DRB had an ignition problem 10km out of town and he had to hold the key just before the crank position to get home. He has a DRB with LH Torana bits so we all know what the issue is, easy fix but PITA on the road. Being the gentleman he is he has offered to bring a big welder over here (100 km return trip) and help fix things in my shed. Truely shows the passion of a Cobra owner and what a real fair dinkum bloke he is.
BTW, his business is for sale so if you want to enter the fabricating and welding industry in the coal money belt here give me a buzz and make yourself zillions. Some nice contracts go with the show and some well disciplined craftsmen.

[Zedn]

Cutting and welding is the only way to go. Any other ways are not fixing the underlying cause and may introduce other weird and wonderful alignment issues. You would hate to put on the adjustable arms and wind it all the way in only to find it doesnt have enough thread. This would also mean a major difference in upper arm lengths.

Its a bit of work in dissassembly but should only be half an hour of cutting and welding. The idea of gussets as suggested would be a good move also.

Whilst you are at it, get rid of the orange juice bottle

[Rob. Smith]

Originally Posted by BJ's Snake

Hi Gary
Had exactly the same problem with mine. Must have been the jigs at Evans.
We cut the plates off and moved them in both sides and rewelded but also gussetted them as well.

Cheers
Brett

The gusset idea is a very good one AND once the shims are in place and the geometry sorted. Take the time to make one solid shim right across the two bolts. This spreads the load evenly over the whole plate and doesn't make 'flex' points.
Rob.

[bobcowan]

Here's another thought. You're right, 3/8" is a lot. You could simply add an adjustable arm and be done with it. But, now the arms are differant lengths front to rear. That means the upper ball joint will follow a differant arc, and change things like bump steer, and camber gain while cornering.

Before you cut things apart, do some measuring. You may find that side to be more favorable for handeling. If that's the case, you can simply add a 3/8" spacer on the other side to make them equal.

[RoyTheBoy]

Originally Posted by Outwest34au

Hi all,
a quick check with a 90* set square today confirmed what I suspected. The right hand side front wheel has excess positive camber and no shims that I can remove to correct it.
Short of cutting off the end plate and rewelding it further inboard does anyone have any ideas on how I can correct the situation?
Are there camber kits that can dial this out? Are there adjustable top arms which exist that are legal to use?
Suspension is Jag XJ to the best of my knowledge.

All suggestions welcomed and appreciated.

Howdy,

I have a Woolley chassis that was built 3 yrs ago and after several hours of "stringing" the rolling chassis, I am now quite comfortable that she is square. However, you may be right about the lower QC of the Evans chassis :-(

Before cutting the suspension pick up points are you sure the upper and lower control arms are correctly mounted? The lower control arms are different (left to right) and the uppers may be a mixed bag of S1/S2 components.

Could you post some images of the lower arms and shock mountings. And a front-on image would be good.

Cheers,

Roy

[Outwest34au]

Rob, Bob, Bj and Roy,
thanks all for the input.
BJ, I will add gussets, such a simple job with potential big benefit. How much did you move your LHS in? I will do angular measurements on it before I cut, but if I have to I might as well do it at the same time.

If I add a (circa) 3/8" spacer to the other side both wheels will be positive and I can't see how that will be desirable.
Good idea with the one piece shim Rob. I might have to mill one or file depending on the difference due to caster adjustment, but once again, a job with beneficial long term results.
Roy, welcome to the party.
Are you saying the lower arms ARE different or that they may be?
The measurement from the longitudinal rails to the top shock mount is the same on both sides, but from the shock mount to top control arm mount plate is 10mm extra on the RHS. The LHS wheel sits nicely in the gaurd with my 7 inch Dragways on but the LHS is way out, of course this looks bad because the problem is at the top, if I had excess negative it would not look so pronounced (and be shimmable).
Yesterday I took the radiator out and got the ars* end up in the air then went for beers with the neighbour (was my first day off in a while) but friday coming I will get the front up and take some pics before I strip it down. I plan to mark where the cuts will be but might leave that till Frank rocks up as it will only take 10 minutes to circumcise it with a 4 inch and ultra thin wheel.
In hindsight it isnt going to be that big a job, just one that should not have to be done if the chassis builder was worth his salt.

[Tony Cram]

Hi Outwest34au,

While you have the front end out it would be worth your while to check that you have Series 2 bottom wishbones. They give you more + caster as they are moved slightly forward at the balljoint (~10mm) than series 1. ie there is a left and right side. (Beware dont put them on the wrong side)

I had series 1 originally on my car and they are straight at the ball joint ie are at 90° to the mounting. I had 0° caster. For about $50 for a set of series 2 at the Jaguar wrecker totally transformed my RMC that had bump steer issues. (ended up at 3° + caster after an alignment). Make sure you take enough off each side as adjusting Caster and Camber takes a bit of movement with shims.

Cheers

TC

[RoyTheBoy]

Hi Outwest34au,

Yes, the lower Series II control arms are different from left side to right as Tony C. has mentioned above.

Also note: I believe the Series I upper control arms are also so handed i.e front arm different to rear arm.

If your control arms (upper/lower) were sourced from different vehicles you could have a mixture of SI/II on the left side compared to you right side.

I have attached images of my front end which i removed from a '76 Series II XJ6. I also have scans of the Jaguar supplied Repair Manual that will give you the correct dimensions etc. Let me know and I can upload them

Regards Roy

[Outwest34au]

"I also have scans of the Jaguar supplied Repair Manual that will give you the correct dimensions etc. Let me know and I can upload them"

Thanks Roy, that would be a great help. If things need changing now is the time to do it.

[Aussie Mike]

The upper Jag arms are asymmetrical too so you need to make sure they are installed on the correct sides. I have a spare set if anyone needs them now that I've replaced mine with FFR arms.

cheers