Are we in danger

[lal Naja]

Here is something worth reading.

Sixteen Concerned Scientists: No Need to Panic About Global Warming - WSJ.com

Will the dishonest mass media ever admit that they fell for this crap and continued the panic by propagating misinformation.

Wonder why Al Gore vanished from the scene.? Tell's you something that after promoting 20 foot+ sea level increase this mentor and loud mouth on Global Warming rushed out and purchased a multi-million $ beach front dwelling. Well done Mr. Gore!!!!!!!

[BMK]

Yes great driving1 weekend. Took the GT40 to the Autofest in Mt.Gambier. A 220 kilometre round trip from Portland.

Went over very early in crisp cool air - Mmmm nice slow run!! The highway patrol were still in bed. Shaved 20 minutes off the one hour trip!! Car ran really well.

The local news paper had a 50 year edition/copy of the paper 'December 1960' included in an edition last month.

Guess what the main article was about - five weeks of heat and no rain followed by heavy rain and flooding. Think I have read this before!!

No wonder the old guys around here and the farmers keep saying it is a cycle. Now I know what they mean.

[Rob. Smith]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Merv,

I must admit I'm a little more cynical than your knowledgeable self. I believe government works more along the lines of:

As long as we are perceived to "try to do the right thing" it doesn't matter "how much it costs sometimes".

But, 'tis the world we live.

I work in a government department (power station) and the management must answer to the "Board" all the answers are always "YES its all good" and the board answers to the government and their answers are always "YES its all good" so all the crap gets rearranged to a positive result and nothing gets corrected. Simply living with eyes closed and going La La La out loud and hoping all the bad stuff will go away ...eventually when another government party takes over. So you can blame them when the next election comes along. sad but true. It's happened for the past 25 years in my industry....Sell all the problems !

[NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Rebel1

Mike, After you finish reading about the evolution, the degree of control, and the greed of banks, you should then read how Governments pull the wool over all our eyes.

Notice I said Governments and not polititians because most pollies do not really understand how the economy of a nation with a sovereign currency actually works.

Start here, from a fellow petrol head :
http://moslereconomics.com/wp-conten...oints/7DIF.pdf

Make sure you read the whole thing.

Wow, couldn't put the book down until I finished it!!
If only i had him as my macro ecomonics lecturer at uni.
Thanks Uncle Les

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by NASSTY

If only i had him as my macro ecomonics lecturer at uni. Thanks Uncle Les

Sure is Uncle Al.
However, If one was to extend ones education in Economics, then one would prefer to study under this fellow.

Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE) - University of Newcastle

A great personal friend of Warren Mosler and is the Bill Mitchell Warren mentions in his book.

Professor Mitchell maintains a blog that I read every day without fail.
Bill Mitchell – billy blog | Modern Monetary Theory … alternative economic thinking

Mind you, they have totally ruined my acceptance of any thing said by any politician.

[HSVREDSLED]

Originally Posted by lal Naja

Here is something worth reading.

Sixteen Concerned Scientists: No Need to Panic About Global Warming - WSJ.com

Will the dishonest mass media ever admit that they fell for this crap and continued the panic by propagating misinformation.

Wonder why Al Gore vanished from the scene.? Tell's you something that after promoting 20 foot+ sea level increase this mentor and loud mouth on Global Warming rushed out and purchased a multi-million $ beach front dwelling. Well done Mr. Gore!!!!!!!

Lal naja, I have travelled frequently to the US over the last 3 years, and indeed Chicago is my fav City "Go Cubs" Can you advise us in OZ how much you pay per month in electricity? We can then times that figure by three to compare to our quarterly bill.

My reason for asking, is that in October 2011, I spoke with Congress officials in DC who in one hand praised us for introducing a carbon tax, and on the other hand had no idea about how much we currently pay for electricity and how the tax would affect that.

So if you dont mind, how much on average does the average householder in the US pay for electricity only..not gas, water etc, just electricity.

[sideshow]

remember those t shirts at the summernats
"if its got teats (not rude version in case it gets bleeped out) or wheels it will cost u money"

well i guess julia gillard can be put under that category too

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by HSVREDSLED

Lal naja, I have travelled frequently to the US over the last 3 years, and indeed Chicago is my fav City "Go Cubs" Can you advise us in OZ how much you pay per month in electricity? We can then times that figure by three to compare to our quarterly bill.

My reason for asking, is that in October 2011, I spoke with Congress officials in DC who in one hand praised us for introducing a carbon tax, and on the other hand had no idea about how much we currently pay for electricity and how the tax would affect that.

So if you dont mind, how much on average does the average householder in the US pay for electricity only..not gas, water etc, just electricity.

That is a tough question to answer. We use electrical power to cool in the summer and gas to heat in the winter so I'm going to give you both for my situation. My house is about 3,300 sq foot 306 square meters. With a cubic content of about 33,000 cubic feet. 935 cubic meters.

I keep the house climate controlled throughout the year with an average temperature of 71 degrees F. 21.67 degrees C. The entire volume of air in the house is changed two to three times a day with outside air through an air exchange and air purification system. So my example is not typical for your study. I really love living in a dust free home with air as clean as you can get without being in an operating room

During the night in winter I allow the temperature drop to about 62 degrees F but the house is well insulated and it never drops that low and I've never taken a reading in the middle of the night.

My electric bill. Jan. $272, Feb $289, Mar. $288 Apr. $296, May, $342, June $414, Jul. $422, Aug $414. Sept $336, Oct. $322, Nov $366, Dec $330.

My Gas bill: Jan. $136, Feb. $203, Mar. $188, Apr. $147. May. $95, Jun. $77, Jul. $53, Aug. $44, Sept. $48, Oct. $53, Nov. $71, Dec. $105

The link below may also be of some help. And I'm sure there are other websites if you google it.

average cost of heating home - utility bills (Chicago: houses, neighborhood) - City-Data Forum

Hope this helps, Chicago too is my choice for living. I've been here for 30 years and have visited almost all the major cities in the USA, along with 39 countries around the world. I agree with you, Chicago is a great place. I do however miss my old stomping grounds, Perth WA is where I grew up. Regards, Arthur

[Dimis]

Arthur, that's quite a detailed return of info.
...and I'll go as far as saying - Ouch! Mine are no where near that.

Originally Posted by lal Naja

Perth WA is where I grew up. Regards, Arthur

Now, with regard to Perth... Why would you leave?
It's a beautiful place in world and one of the wife's favorites.

[Merv and Sharon]

Originally Posted by lal Naja

Here is something worth reading.

Sixteen Concerned Scientists: No Need to Panic About Global Warming - WSJ.com

Will the dishonest mass media ever admit that they fell for this crap and continued the panic by propagating misinformation.

Wonder why Al Gore vanished from the scene.? Tell's you something that after promoting 20 foot+ sea level increase this mentor and loud mouth on Global Warming rushed out and purchased a multi-million $ beach front dwelling. Well done Mr. Gore!!!!!!!

Arthur, maybe you are being unkind to the former VP, Gore? If he 'knows', or at least believes, that the medium term future is bleak in terms of climate change/global warming, then now really is the time to buy that exclusive beach front property and enjoy it while you can? It's like why many of us drive Cobras that guzzle gas. That is our contribution to concerns about reducing carbon fuel resources and emissions. The faster we use it, the faster alternatives have to be found?

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Arthur, maybe you are being unkind to the former VP, Gore? If he 'knows', or at least believes, that the medium term future is bleak in terms of climate change/global warming, then now really is the time to buy that exclusive beach front property and enjoy it while you can? It's like why many of us drive Cobras that guzzle gas. That is our contribution to concerns about reducing carbon fuel resources and emissions. The faster we use it, the faster alternatives have to be found?

Beware of false prophets.

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Arthur, that's quite a detailed return of info.
...and I'll go as far as saying - Ouch! Mine are no where near that.




Now, with regard to Perth... Why would you leave?
It's a beautiful place in world and one of the wife's favorites.

"Love" Met a girl on a holiday from the USA, Chicago, on a Perth beach in 1976. When she returned to the US, I missed her. So I wrote a love song, sang it, sent her a cassette tape with me singing and asked her to come back to Perth, 9 months later she did. Then her Australian Visa expired and she had to leave, so we decided to leave Australia and take a year travelling around the world over land. We traveled for six months and made it to Chicago. Got a job, ended up buying the company I worked for and time went by. It does fly when you're having fun.

[Merv and Sharon]

Thanks Arthur, I am.

[HSVREDSLED]

Thanks for your detailled reply Lal Naja. My question sort of backfired as Chicago is probably one of the worst cities to compare electricity costs with Australia due to the extremes in weather. But your info is great. I asked the question because last year I asked some californians and they said there monthly bill was sub $90? I calculated that we pay probably double over here.

As for Chicaco...what a great place. We went to a Wedding there in July 2010 and boy was it hot! Over 100 most days. Then onto NYC and it was the hottest there on record.
But I loved the place. We stayed on Mich ave, did all the tourist things including a Cubs game. Went to Arlington Park Races, all the blues clubs. My mate lives on Nth Dearbourn. He sent me photos of the blizzard last Winter...Brrrrrrrrr!

[HSVREDSLED]

What the hell I had to put up some pics..

Cubs game. This shot taken from our seats. Cubs actually won!



You should have seen the people run when I started jumping up and down on this thing. Skydeck Chicago

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by lal Naja

"Love" Met a girl on a holiday from the USA, Chicago, on a Perth beach in 1976. When she returned to the US, I missed her. So I wrote a love song, sang it, sent her a cassette tape with me singing and asked her to come back to Perth, 9 months later she did. Then her Australian Visa expired and she had to leave, so we decided to leave Australia and take a year travelling around the world over land. We traveled for six months and made it to Chicago. Got a job, ended up buying the company I worked for and time went by. It does fly when you're having fun.

Good enough reason for me brother
Congratulations

[cameron02]

Hell la Naja,

I have read the article. Interesting. I think its a bit of a stretch to say 16 scientists. Some scientists, some engineers and some people successfull in other fields. I think only one of them is a climate scientist.

It is good to see diuscussion of the issues but it reminds me of tobacco when when I was a kid, a minority of medical people were saying smoking was no problem.

It still makes me laugh when they say follow the money. All the big money is with the energy providers and minning companies (ie Australia's richest person for example). Just like when all the money was with the tobacco companies.

When looking at issues like these I like to ask myself. Is my view on this subject in line with my self interest. If it is then I make sure I am extra critical with myself and double check my motives. With action on climate change its a tough one. For my liftime I will be worse off, however I have the satisfaction of knowing that I have done what I can to ensure my decendants have the best chance at a good life.


To quote an excellent cartoon "What if we're wrong and we make the world a better place for nothing?"

[HSVREDSLED]

The science is simply...not there.

Climate change is real. No question. But what has man done to affect climate? What did man do to bring on the ice age? Fart too much?

I laugh when I hear studies over the last year, or last 50 years saying this or that. The earth is estimated to be 4.5 Billion years old. So when we look at a sample of say...100 years, we are looking at a sample of less than one ten millionth of the total figures. Its like asking two people in Australia what there favourite colour is and if they both say 'pink', then we come to the conclusion that pink is EVERYONES favourite colour. Its the same sample ratio.

Even the Vostok Ice data is only 420,000, years old. This is a sample size of one in a million?

CO2 emmissions is said to cause global warming. We dont hear that term much any more though....because allegedly, we are not warming. What we now hear is 'climate change'. How convenient.

However, I do agree, that we should something to reduce crap we put in the air....just in case... But on a Global scale. Thats what Kyoto and the IPCC are all about. But what about the big hitters? China, India, US. We are a drop in the ocean in terms of CO2 emmisions and are introducing a insane tax, when none of the big hitters are?

So now we come to Julia. Her spruikings whilst a member of the socialist forum in her youth (spin off of the communist party) detailed her plan for a 'super tax' to level the classes in true socialist style. So with her green bedmates and loony independents she found her 'reasoning' for a 'super tax' all disquised as a C02 tax.

If we are sooooo worried about carbon dioxide emmissions, why do we sell coal by the billion of tonnes overseas. Isnt that a bit like Alcoholic anonymous giving away Beer coolers at every AA meeting?

Finally I think that 'man' is over estimating his ability to influence planet earth. Earth has been here long before us and probably long after mankind has gone.

A few months ago we had a plant/tree that got waaaaay out of control. I took to it with a chainsaw and cut EVERY branch leaf etc off it ready to rip outa the ground. I didnt do the final stage...now its back bigger than ever...

[Merv and Sharon]

We all have our views on this. Those of us who work in scientific communities hear about their research and the consolidated views of the large body of research, that they choose to quote, and the long term 'trend' data. You form an opinion depending, to some extent, on the initial orientation or vested interest that you have.

I tend to agree with Cameron on most of this, and also can see the folly of thinking in short time frames. At a personal level, I am deeply concerned about the increasing control of our media by the owners of big business and now the mining companies (Palmer/Rinehart) and how this whole issue is presented. I also think that 7 billion people on this planet with cars, stoves, factories and animals, might just have a bit of an effect on the contents of the atmosphere and give old 'mother nature' somewhat of a challenge.

However, whether you are a believer or not, cynicism is the best attitude. Be cynical of the scientific claims until you have spent some time in the journals and doing your own search, but also be cynical of some of the leading nay-sayers and question their motives as well.

[Rob. Smith]

Here's another slant... Nothing to do with carbon release have a read of this............Nuclear is not the answer - but not why you'd think – Blog – ABC Environment (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
We're all OK.....I think ? ? ?