Shell pulls ethanol pumps from Victoria!!!!

[OZCOBRA]

Shell pulls ethanol pumps from Victoria
Steve Colquhoun
August 12, 2011

Greener fuel not selling, says petroleum giant.

Cheaper ethanol-blended fuel is on the nose with Victorian motorists according to Dutch petroleum giant Shell, which is withdrawing the 10 per cent ethanol-infused E10 fuel from sale.

Shell will quit selling the environmentally friendlier fuel at all 63 of its 200 Victorian service stations that offer it, but will continue to sell E10 in other Australian states where it enjoys significantly greater popularity.

Shell spokesman Paul Zennaro said the greener fuel — a mix of unleaded petrol and plant-derived ethanol — simply wasn’t popular in Victoria, despite being between two and four cents per litre cheaper to buy.

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‘‘The Victorian public hasn’t really warmed to the product, and volumes of sales are very low,’’ he said.

Shell will switch its E10 bowsers and supply tanks over to diesel fuel, which Mr Zennaro said was booming in popularity.

The RACV’s acting manager of vehicle engineering, Nick Platt, said E10 simply didn’t stack up financially for Victorians.

‘‘Given there’s about a 3 per cent increase in fuel use, it’s probably not making financial sense,’’ he said.

‘‘The discount doesn’t cover the extra that you use by using E10. People just aren’t getting the savings they thought they would.’’

However, a spokesman for the independent United Petroleum group of service stations said demand for E10 was growing more quickly at its Victoria sites than in other states.

‘‘We introduced it about five years ago and Victoria had one of the fastest uptakes,’’ said United’s general manger of ethanol and supply, David Szymczak. ‘‘Our volume of E10 in Victoria actually growing and we’re getting really good feedback from our customers.’’

United Petroleum recently purchased an ethanol refinery in Dalby, in Queensland, and plans to continue to offer E10 at a discount around the country.

A government mandate in NSW directing retailers to stock E10 has ensured the fuel’s popularity in that state. Shell has not withdrawn the fuel from any other Australian state.

Caltex Australia last year began selling E85 — an 85 per cent blend of ethanol and petrol — as part of an agreement with Holden, which launched an E85-capable engine in its popular Commodore range.

Caltex spokesman Sam Collyer said it was too early to tell whether Victorian motorists were backing the ethanol-heavy brew, while Holden spokswoman Shayna Welsh said the car maker was undeterred in its ethanol roll-out that will see more Commodores converted to run on E85 later this year.

[Merv and Sharon]

The discount would need to be much greater, given the greater fuel consumption with ethanol. In the longer term this kind of fuel will become a cost/benefit consideration as we increase the need to use such lands for growing food, not fuel.

[Towmaster]

I don't get it. There is thousands of acres of land unused on the sunshine coast that used to grow sugar cane..... The stuff ethanol can be made from..... They closed the refinery at Nambour and the land is wasted...

[Merv and Sharon]

Ha Ha. Near the coast, it is now called flood plain ..... and those guys sensibly have given up after years of flood damage.

[REPTYL]

I used E10 for every fill up 1 year ago, because I was accually seeing a good cost saving (I do a heap of Ks).
Someone has got greedy somewere along the line, the cost difference to ULP closed several cents over night for no obvious reason and stayed there.

The cost for me is now about the same each week to run ULP or E10.
But I dropped E10 as soon as the price jumped (my own personal protest).
I'm guessing I wasn't the only one.

My other person protest is to never use one of these "save 4 cents" dockets.
Maybe if everyone joined me they would go the same way as E10 and we could just by our groceries and petrol at a non-inflated price.

I Know...I'm dreaming. But I do feel a little better now that I've vented.

[Wazza]

On one of the shows last night...Current affair ?...Today Tonight ?...they did a comparison between E10, 91 Octane/98 Octane and Diesel...

Found it.....
Petrol that saves you money


A bit of a shock!!!!....apart from the obvious being Diesel was cheapest per kilometer.....the 98 Octane actually worked out cheaper per kilometer than the two other fuels !!!
Yes the 98 octane was the dearest per litre, but it made way better kilometers to the litre, and actually worked out it was cheaper to run the car on 98 !!

I wouldn't have believed it....am I missing something ?

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REPTYL

I used E10 for every fill up 1 year ago, because I was accually seeing a good cost saving (I do a heap of Ks).
Someone has got greedy somewere along the line, the cost difference to ULP closed several cents over night for no obvious reason and stayed there.

The cost for me is now about the same each week to run ULP or E10.
But I dropped E10 as soon as the price jumped (my own personal protest).
I'm guessing I wasn't the only one.

My other person protest is to never use one of these "save 4 cents" dockets.
Maybe if everyone joined me they would go the same way as E10 and we could just by our groceries and petrol at a non-inflated price.

I Know...I'm dreaming. But I do feel a little better now that I've vented.

I'm with you, I also don't use those "4 cent" dockets... It can take up to 15-20mins to refuel at a Shell at the close of the week's cost cycle due to the que. While filling up at the BP or Mobil up the road takes 5mins.

I figure, the most I could save is a couple of bucks, so I'd have to be getting paid less than $8 an hour for it to be worth my while.

Originally Posted by Wazza

On one of the shows last night...Current affair ?...Today Tonight ?...they did a comparison between E10, 91 Octane/98 Octane and Diesel...

Found it.....
Petrol that saves you money


A bit of a shock!!!!....apart from the obvious being Diesel was cheapest per kilometer.....the 98 Octane actually worked out cheaper per kilometer than the two other fuels !!!
Yes the 98 octane was the dearest per litre, but it made way better kilometers to the litre, and actually worked out it was cheaper to run the car on 98 !!

I wouldn't have believed it....am I missing something ?

My wife has been filling the sh*t box exclusively with 98-octane and been telling me this anecdotally for years, so I'm not surprised.
There is a few Shell stations that do have 100-octane where we travel. We try to fill up at those. They call it "Optimax Extreme" or similar. However, if I understand it correctly that also has 5% or so ethanol blend*.

[size="1"]* Not 100% certain of this thou/SIZE]

[Aussie Mike]

Both our daily drivers are Diesels. I've been a diesel convert for about 4 or 5 years now. My Land Rover used to get 800-900Ks out of a tank depending on round town or open road. That works out to be about 11L/100 for a big heavy 4x4. The surprise was how good the economy was with a trailer on the back. with a tandem trailer and Cobra on back I was still getting 600KM out of a tank. My wife's car gets 1000Ks out of a tank or more on a long trip and regularly does less than 5L/100.

The Land Rover replacement is another Diesel and it gets 10L/100 driving to and from work and 9L/100 on a trip. It's got way more power than the old Discovery and is smooth and quiet and still has a 3.5 ton towing capacity. You would be hard pressed to know it was a diesel except for the puff of diesel smoke when you start it up.

One of the nice things about diesels is that there isn't as big a difference between city and highway fuel consumption. So if the manufacturer quotes a specific fuel consumption you are probably going to get close to it in a Diesel most of the time where as a petrol car will be much more dependent on how you drive it. With Petrol getting the manufacturer quoted figures may be a case of all the factors being right i.e road conditions, speed, traffic and alignment of the stars etc.

Diesels take some getting used to living with one but after a while you get used to the turbo lag and adapt your driving to it. They make power differently to a petrol engine but these days diesel doesn't = slow any more. My wife's Jetta had way more perceived get up and go than the petrol version when driven back to back. It just makes so much torque which is what you are using getting off the mark and driving round town. I've found the traction control regularly kicks in on her car.

Cheers

[boxhead]

We only run premium in my wifes Capri, Main reason for me was that they replaced "normal" ULP out here with "Opal" fuel (Low aromatic to lessen petrol sniffing) And although it is also rated at 91 octane, it is crap fuel, your car will run on it, but I personally dont use it.
Ronda has accidently on occasion put opal in the car, and she too reports having to refuel sooner when she does put it in.

[Modena]

Diesel power For The Win. Witness Audi's dominance at LeMans when they instigated diesel, now all top LeMans contenders are diesel.

BP have always claimed that Ultimate (98) gives further mileage, and yes it appears to be true. It still hurts though filling up at $1.59 / litre!

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Modena

Diesel power For The Win. Witness Audi's dominance at LeMans when they instigated diesel, now all top LeMans contenders are diesel.

The diesels are fast but I think they mainly win by having to make fewer pit stops. They get better economy and if you have to make 2 or 3 less pit stops during a race that's a lot of time you are ahead.

Cheers

[boxhead]

Originally Posted by Modena

Diesel power For The Win. Witness Audi's dominance at LeMans when they instigated diesel, now all top LeMans contenders are diesel.

BP have always claimed that Ultimate (98) gives further mileage, and yes it appears to be true. It still hurts though filling up at $1.59 / litre!

I could only wish.
$1.79 per litre early this week.

[Gaz64]

I've been telling people about the fuel economy benefits of PULP for years now, most were sceptics, some listened, some tried and are converts.

Only works with EFI cars while in closed loop. The longer you spend in closed loop, the greater the fuel consumption difference per tank.

Carby cars will not benefit in lower fuel consumption.

Use the lowest octane without detonation. High octane does not necessarily give more power.

[Merv and Sharon]

Given that our cars often sit for long periods without running, have any used this kind of thing in the fuel?

PPC - Fuel Preservative and Stabilizer

[Rob. Smith]

Yeah I've read a lot of yank stories of this fuel separating over time. It doesn't remix with a shake and it produces a slight amount of water in the separation process. Thus rust and other damage. The stories all recommend draining the tank for the winter period and tossing the drained fuel. ???

[Gaz64]

Fuel separation starts to occur with blends above 20%, hence why we only have E10.

I will never ever use any ethanol based fuel in any of my cars.

I WOULD use E85 or straight ethanol if the fuel system was designed for it.

Alcohols also absorb moisture from the air.

[Merv and Sharon]

I seem to use 95 or 98 octane which is overkill in my engine. I avoid ethanol and if my car was sitting around (it isn't and gets driven 4-5 times a week) I would be thinking about a fuel preserver.