ShelbyFest 2012

[T.L.]

I am hoping to have my car finished and come up for a day trip, currently going through paint, the upholstery and rego. I already have vin, so hopefully it's just an inspection.

[Philm]

HI Ben,
Firstly, I am not all bent and twisted about this but could see the opportunity to fix a problem we have in classing with both the Nationals and Shelbyfest. If you understand what I am proposing it actually creates more competion within my class.

The idea of the classes is to make this as even as possible so that every car in that class has a real opportunity to win.


To class using engine capacity is probably the best way to do this, however this should also be set with an understanding of engine groups and types.

The issue I have is the 6tr Dart block based windsor with a 3.4 stroke and the larger than 4 inch bore should be clasified and grouped in the same class. To split this group in half for less than 1% of there capacity just doesn't make sence.

I understand the 6ltr rule has been a constant, but this was a real opportunity to fix it with the inforcement of the new tyre rules.

I just hope the descisions being made are not influenced by a few, who see an opportunity to diminish the competition in their own class thru a technicality.

I do tuely believe that the classes should be 5100 to 5900 for class 2 and the bigger capacities and blown make up class 3.

Well that just my opinion and I appreciate that these things are not a simple as it seams.

I am looking forward to the event and better check my wheels bearings as I have a feeling they wont pass scutinering.

Phil

[Modena]

The idea of the classes is to make this as even as possible so that every car in that class has a real opportunity to win.

I agree with your statement, however it is completely thrown out the window because of tyres. I have fundamental issues with this relating to tyres. You now HAVE to have R-Spec tyres to have any hope at all of getting close to the front. That doesn't seem fair to me, but that is what The People seem to have wanted at club discussions, so that is what we got. This happened because the most vocal competitors all have R-Spec tyres. The people running on "normal" street tyres haven't added their opinions or spoken loudly enough, so there we have it - R-Spec or you come down the finishing order.

To split this group in half for less than 1% of there capacity just doesn't make sence.

I agree the Dart issue is an unfortunate anomaly.

I just hope the descisions being made are not influenced by a few, who see an opportunity to diminish the competition in their own class thru a technicality.

I can assure this is not the case. Open club discussions have been held on classing, in relation to both engines and tyres, and The People have spoken. I happen to disagree with some of it, but majority rules.

I think the 6000cc limit was for two reasons;

1) capture the LS1,LS2,L76,L98
you wouldn't want a stock 351 going up against a worked heads & cam LS3
you also wouldn't want a worked L98 going up against a 4990cc stocker
but then again, tyres, tyres, tyres, make most of these comparisons irrelevant

2) allow re-bored 351's to sneak in under 6L

I don't know if anyone really thought of DART strokers that might get split at 6000cc

[Philm]

I am sure the 6ltr Dart issue is well known with influential members within your club.

And that is all I will say.

Phil

[REPTYL]

I think Ben and Phil both have a very good understanding of the politics behind this discussion.

Over the years that Shelbyfest has been running, my one regret as organiser is introducing classes in to that first event. I've been battling hard since the 3rd year to have them removed (guess I don't always get my own way).

Looking back over all those years, it has been the only problem area where we haven't been able make everyone happy.

Oh and Phil, You have me in the >6lt class this year, just need to find a good set of tyres. (may also need to look in to some James Bond type devices for the Cobra (if I want any chance of a trophy)).

[keith 720]

come on Phil its just starting to get interesting.

[Philm]

Excellent Jason,

How is the new donk?

phil

[keith 720]

The way I understand it the classes dont come into the trophys anyway.Is it not just the 5 fastest in each event or am I wrong Jason.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REPTYL

I think Ben and Phil both have a very good understanding of the politics behind this discussion.

Over the years that Shelbyfest has been running, my one regret as organiser is introducing classes in to that first event. I've been battling hard since the 3rd year to have them removed (guess I don't always get my own way).

Looking back over all those years, it has been the only problem area where we haven't been able make everyone happy.

This post won't make me any friends, but what the hell!!

It sounds to me like you all are trying to find ingeneous solutions to problems that should never exist, only because you are trying to apease a group of egotistical types who don't have the courage to race against real racers, but instead get their rocks off by beating weekend ametures.

I truly feel sorry for both the piss weak clowns who's lives are so empty that winning a plastic trophy means that much to them, for they are truly a sad case, and for you who have to bare it and attempt to pander to them.

I vote no classes!
This isn't primary school were all particpants need an award, nor is it golf and thus no handicap is necessary.
With so many makes, builds & brands drawing a line will only shift the advantage/disadvantage to the next competitor. I say race against your time from last year.

Engine size is nearly irrelevant when you consider that tyres, suspension, and down force will do more for you than cubic inches.
Plus cubic inches is only half the story when it comes to engine performance.

[Philm]

How do you breath Dimi with your head so far up your own arse.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Philm

How do you breath Dimi with your head so far up your own arse.

True I don't have a horse in this race, and my exposure to nationals and Shelbyfest is nil. But I am curious to understand why the need for classes to what I understand to be predominantly a social gathering for like minded cobra/daytona/gt40/car lovers.

Sorry if I offended you, but I'd be curious to know!

Thanks

[Gav]

Dimis,
I think you are getting club racing confused with your ballet guild.
The reason that there are classes is to try to group up similar performance cars/drivers.
A cobra has no downforce so tyres and engines are the main variable.
All that is being said here is that a line has been drawn to separate a large class, but that line has been run through a group of similar cars. This group just happens to be a very competitive engine group.
No class cut off should be so close to a popular engine displacement, if one of the 'just under 6ltr' guys requires a 10 or 20 over bore they will change classes and that is plain silly.

Myself?
I have a modified 5.7 LS1 and would prefer to go in class 3 with the racers than stay in class 2 with the trophy hunters.

[boxhead]

I just want to eat sausages at the BBQ on Sunday.

[Rog246]

Sometimes I miss being involved in organising events........now after having a quick read of this thread............not so much

As they say' you can please some people part of the time etc '
I reckon that Box has the right idea !

At the end of the day its all about having fun with folk who have something in common.

The argument re classes is simple to fix! All cars over 5.7lts have to run 640x15 Dunlop B4's and everyone under the 5.7 can run any tyre they want ! That should make for an interesting spectacle

[Towmaster]

It annoys me when outside people chime in about something they have very little understanding of....
I guess it just shows how passionate we are about these little monsters!
Seriously, if you want to race your street registered cobra and keep it legal and drive able then these two events are the only places you can do it against other cobras.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Gav

Dimis,
I think you are getting club racing confused with your ballet guild.
The reason that there are classes is to try to group up similar performance cars/drivers.
A cobra has no downforce so tyres and engines are the main variable.
All that is being said here is that a line has been drawn to separate a large class, but that line has been run through a group of similar cars. This group just happens to be a very competitive engine group.
No class cut off should be so close to a popular engine displacement, if one of the 'just under 6ltr' guys requires a 10 or 20 over bore they will change classes and that is plain silly.

Myself?
I have a modified 5.7 LS1 and would prefer to go in class 3 with the racers than stay in class 2 with the trophy hunters.

Thanks Gav, that's exactly my point.

I'd have thought that most were more interested in the "sausages at the BBQ on Sunday" as Box suggested, than to care about any classes at all. Particularly a class division which is so "marginal" as Phil has outlined. Hence my suggestion for no classes.

Is it so naive of me to think that cars/drivers could be grouped by speed (ie: perhaps last years lap times), for safety's sake - ie fast, medium & slow (or similar).
Obviously not perfect for newcomers but you could come up with something to accommodate & encourage participants.

I'd have thought that most guys would have a similar attitude to you. Wanting to step up to the faster class, if they were fast/good enough to qualify, despite engine size. If you win the fast class great! Kudos to you! However, if you win Medium or Slow - Big deal... No trophy for you! Step up next year if you want a trophy!

Hypothetically speaking - there's no point having a dude (let's say ME for example) in a Twin-turbo SC stroked 7lt running around next to you if your 5.7lt ls1 will be lapping me ever 3rd lap. All I'd be doing is getting in your way and preventing you from enjoying your time on track.
Surly, if I want a trophy I should put my hand up to run with the fast category... No?

Who would object to that?


Either way, I'm not fussed 'cos a trophy doesn't mean that much to me... but I worry about those who would insist on classes, just to maintain an advantage in order to better place themselves to win a trophy in an event that seems to be social gathering of like minded people.


PS: My Downforce statement is still relevant when you group different styled/shaped cars - ie: Daytonas & GT40s vs Cobras.

[REPTYL]

The Supp regs are out and the classes set for Shelby2012.

If the National group wish to put a change forward for this years Nationals maybe the Shelby organisers can follow suit for next years event.

[Philm]

Politics

[Beejay]

It has been great to enter the last three Shelbyfest events, but unfortunately my car is up for sale and I will not be coming down this year. I guess a holiday in Thailand is a good compromise though!

I have been pretty vocal in the past about the tyre groupings, and I still see this as a problem at both of our events. Nothing else has such a huge effect on lap times with similar cars.

Dimis, are you really putting crap on those who race and yet you do not participate?! Some people just do not get it.

Life always rewards those who put in the effort and skill to achieve more than others. Why should social racing be any different?

Ben

[NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Philm

Excellent Jason,

How is the new donk?

phil

I think it drinks alot



Seriously, how's it going? Myself and MG were wondering about it the other day.

Cheers