Donor Car - XR8 - Sedan or Ute?

[Route 66]

Hi Guys,

We are looking for opinions on which body type makes the best donor car - XR8 - Sedan or Ute? We are at this stage planning on the formula of a damaged XR8 Boss260/290 6Spd Manual from the Auctions either Pickles or Manheim/Fowles. We are looking for the pros or cons on whether a sedan or ute makes a better option?

We do need a pump/sender unit from a ute but this could be easily picked up separately. There are a few advantages in the wiring harness having less to cut out and also the right plugs for the pump but we would not think that is a majot issue. Also from what we have read the sedan has 4 channel ABS and the ute a 3 channel system. We have no idea what if any difference that would make in practice.

There also seems to be some headaches with the diferent Series BA/BF/FG with later FG's having complications with programmimg the various systems. The guy from Elite here in Brisbane said the BF's were the easiest to flash tune. From BA MkII on the engines seem to be ok and it is just a matter of K's.

Regards



Route 66
Brisbane Qld

[sevenohms]

FYI, anything Falcon with traction control has 4 channel ABS. BF Ute has traction (mine does!). 3 channel has one brake line to the rear wheels, and so in theory would brake both wheels to provide traction control, but in the Falcon only the low end variants got this, as the ABS would modulate both rear wheels if one slipped. IMHO, in the BF it'd be better to go a ute, as there is no dynamic stability control, which you a) dont need, and b) can't program. I used the full loom from a BF ute, with the correct engine, and as they can be sensitive to correct wiring/modules this made it possible to run my engine, minus HIM (heater), ABS module and cluster (all of which must be plugged in and well earthed) to start), which the CANBUS runs through/ must be plugged in to allow the car to start without a tune. I did it this way so I didn't need to tune it until much later in the process. Just watch in the BA-BF, the main loom for the car runs through sheetmetal on the front right of the car, and in a crash this loom is cut. If you can, try to get one that isn't cut, as this loom either is covered in battery acid and corrodes, or is about $750 from Ford.

My 2c.

Originally Posted by Route 66

Hi Guys,

We are looking for opinions on which body type makes the best donor car - XR8 - Sedan or Ute? We are at this stage planning on the formula of a damaged XR8 Boss260/290 6Spd Manual from the Auctions either Pickles or Manheim/Fowles. We are looking for the pros or cons on whether a sedan or ute makes a better option?

We do need a pump/sender unit from a ute but this could be easily picked up separately. There are a few advantages in the wiring harness having less to cut out and also the right plugs for the pump but we would not think that is a majot issue. Also from what we have read the sedan has 4 channel ABS and the ute a 3 channel system. We have no idea what if any difference that would make in practice.

There also seems to be some headaches with the diferent Series BA/BF/FG with later FG's having complications with programmimg the various systems. The guy from Elite here in Brisbane said the BF's were the easiest to flash tune. From BA MkII on the engines seem to be ok and it is just a matter of K's.

Regards



Route 66
Brisbane Qld

[/b]

[boxhead]

Sorry sevenohms, but the Falcon ute my mate bought as a donor for his 540, is definatly 3 chanel.

[WKB]

Sevonohms has probably said it all. If you do get a BF and want all the abs/traction/stability control you will need a sedan and need to use the steering column for the stability control function to operate.
The traction/stability control is extremley wheel dia sensitive between front and rear.

I don't see tuning an FG as an issue. All the tuning shops are doing them and I have not read of any issues about this on the Ford forums.

The FG utes have four channel abs.

A supercharged coyote Falcon GT would make a good donor car.
If you are not concerned about if it is 3 channel or 4 channel ABS a car or a ute, no difference.

Availabilty of damaged vehicles will probably make the choice for you.

Warren

[stephen low]

And in terms of general weight balance a ute is likely to be closer to the cobra than a sedan I believe as another piece of food for thought.

[Route 66]

Hi WKB,

We are keen on ABS, Traction (sort of) & Cruise but not Stability Control? I don't know a great deal about the dynamics of it or systems it requires, I am more concerned about the problems it might cause us trying to eliminate it. We plan to use the steering column & pedal box but not the steering wheel. We will find alternate control for the cruise (autostrada maybe?).

We had been hanging out for a Ute as it was recommended by Peter from DRB the preferred option. They have been scarce, (lots of early BA's or autos). Just last week at Pickles in BrizVegas a BA Mk2 Sedan Boss 260 6 spd manual with virtually no damage, but high K's went for $5250. At that price we could afford to rebuild and improve it and it would still be cheap. The ideal seems to be a BF Mk2 and wish list Boss 290. From the general responses an FG seems can be used and the electronic issues are not a big deal, it just gets down to price. Our reading tells us the FG 290 is a very well advanced peace of work. The main issues that concern us are the immobaliser problems some have mentioned in other threads?

Karma being what it is I am sure the right car will pop up at the right time.

Thanks

Route 66

Originally Posted by WKB

Sevonohms has probably said it all. If you do get a BF and want all the abs/traction/stability control you will need a sedan and need to use the steering column for the stability control function to operate.
The traction/stability control is extremley wheel dia sensitive between front and rear.

I don't see tuning an FG as an issue. All the tuning shops are doing them and I have not read of any issues about this on the Ford forums.

The FG utes have four channel abs.

A supercharged coyote Falcon GT would make a good donor car.
If you are not concerned about if it is 3 channel or 4 channel ABS a car or a ute, no difference.

Availabilty of damaged vehicles will probably make the choice for you.

Warren

[Route 66]

Hi All,

The donor car issue continues to be a problem. We have worked out that either a Ute or Sedan works with minor pros and cons either way. I will continue to show my complete lack of knowledge when it comes particularly to modern electronics. There have been a few possible donor vehicles appear on Pickles, Manheim/Fowles and even ebay with varing damage from scratches to pretending to be a submarine. I had been told by someone that some of the key ECU's were located in the sills but not which side, driver of passenger. The reason I ask is there is an XR8 around but with left side impact but the rest of the vehicle is in good condition.

Does it create any issues if the airbags have been deployed in terms of the ECU etc for getting the engine fired up?

Also does the ABS work independently of the other ECUs, Body Computer etc and can these be eliminated?

I had been told that you could just use the engine wiring loom and ECU and hand wire the rest of the car?

We are keen on retaining/adapting the ABS and cruise.

Any thoughts or leads on who could help would be greatly appreciated. There are many references to BPT in WA as THE authority but I would have thought there would be someone on the east coast?

Regards


Route 66
Brisbane Qld

[WKB]

There are no computers in the the sils of the car. The lowest computer is the air bag computer which is on top of the tunnel under the ICC. I am not aware of any issues with starting the car after the airbags have been deployed. I removed all the airbags and the airbag sensors from the 540 and the only thing it does is brings up SRS fault codes in the system. The seat belts also use this same computer, but again no issues when starting the car.

All the computers in the system (including the HIM which controls the air con)need to be connected up for the car to start. There are no indepentant computers in the system.

As far as the wiring loom goes(Sideshow might be a help here) I would use as much as the original loom as possible and strip out what you don't need. There will be "hand"wiring required for the dash.

Talk to Peter R regarding who to use regarding turning off unwanted computers in the PCM. There have to other companies that can do this. I know Herrod Motorsport(Melbourne) has "broken" into the ZF programing and is the Australian agent for SCT flash tuners. I don't know of any local companies that have the ability to play with the PCM programing. If you find someone let me know as I have a couple of things I won't to sort out in the 540.

Warren

[sideshow]

if u just want to turn security off in ecu its not to hard
afew programs out there can do it which we have
but if u want a full proper tune get soemone who does sct boxes
best way is to throw everythign out except the engine loom and loom around ecu
wire up the ecu with new relays and stuff
once security is turned off then thing will start

ive never done a job where we have fitted the whole comlete car wirng hrness from a doner car as for someone to pay us to fit it and sort it out its cheaper to do it our way
but we find most diy guys do fit complete loom because its easier for them plus they can do it over a few weeks and not have to pay anyone
loom is abit more bulky but its easy to fit

[sideshow]

abs and crusie is easy and hard at same time
abs u need all 4 wheel reluctor rings fitted and sensors etc etc
cruise u need the buttons off the steering wheel
if u use factory ford steering wheel its easy
but if u want different wheel then u need to look at the fiddly things

dash is another fiddly thing
ford speedo works of abs
no sensor on gbox
so if u dont run abs u need to look at that
ford tacho works of canbus
so if u dont run ford dash u need module to get rpm to aftermarket tacho
as theres no rpm wire on ecu

just ring the guys at castle autos or bpt if u need anything done

theres ****loads of guys doing the sct boxes these days
friend of mine is sydney is an agent

or just buy the sct box load up the software learn how to use it
turn off security yr done hehehehe