LSx and Emmissions

[Zedn]

Hi All,

A question for those with LS1/2/3/7 engines who have had emissions testing done.

I am planning my engine management and a lot of harnesses come with no emmissions connections (No EGR, only 2 O2 sensors etc).

My question is will the LS motors pass emmissions without these emmissions items and only 2 O2 sensors?

Cheers.

[sambo]

Zedn, just follow the VE Commodore factory setup, minus body control module obviously. Your engine harness plugs into all the sensors on the block (some may be pollution related, NFI really) with two or four O2 sensor wires running to the ECU.

Unless you're running an aftermarket ECU?

[Gav]

The only reason that the later engines run 4 O2 sensors it to monitor the cats.
2 will work fine.
However having said that, since you are using an engine that was designed to run in Australia with 4 sensors or EGR? (LS3) you will probably find that your engineer will stipulate that it will need these to pass irrespective to whether they make a difference to the emmissions or not.

[Gaz64]

If the engine came from VE, you have to run 4 sensors - 2 pre cat, 2 post cat to pass emissions inspection.

No engine in VE runs EGR.

[Zedn]

In NSW we have to pass the IM240 Test. As far as i am aware it doesnt matter what you use as long as you pass IM240.

Because the current level that we need to comply with is less than full emmissions requirements i am thinking it will be ok, but i want to here from people who have taken their car through IM240 and what the setup was for this.

Gaz thanks for the info on the EGR do you know if there are any additional emmissions items such as air pump on the VE? Or is it just the evap purge solonoid (which i have)?

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Zedn

i want to here from people who have taken their car through IM240 and what the setup was for this

Well that's a whole other kettle of fish - as you may know. Your engine management can be thrown out by bad MAF readings (not in free flowing air, too close to throttle body), cats need to be as close to heads as possible to light up early. Make sure they're ceramic cats and not the cheap metal substrate - preferably factory items with low kms if second hand. Your tune may be calibrated to work with factory intake and airbox - I had my tune edited on a dyno prior to the IM240 and the bloke changed something to do with fuel trims.

My L98 got through with an edited VE C'dore tune from Sideshow/Doubledip, MAF located about 300mm in front of the intake elbow (near the balancer), custom airbox with VN filter, VZ cats mounted just behind the gearbox bellhousing and two O2 sensors in the collectors - just in front of cats. Two inch pipes with resonators and no mufflers, for what it's worth.

This is by no means "how to pass the IM240" information, just sharing what I picked up along the way. Good luck.

[Zedn]

Thanks Sambo,

Good info about the O2 sensors.

I have cats from an HSV LS3 and i am trying to get the MAF from the guy that sold me the ECM. He used the ECM to run his car whilst his original ECM was out being tuned for MAFless. Im hoping to get the MAF he removed.

IM240 is free in NSW which is good.

[sambo]

Sound like a good plan. I see the LS3 MAF is a blade design that plumbs into the intake. Available for $85 on eBay US. Maybe that's an option?

[Zedn]

I havnt got to the bottom of that yet. Im not sure if the cartridge type are an alternative that requires ECM cal to work.

The GMPP controller uses that type.

[sambo]

Maybe call a few of the bigger LS tuning shops and ask whether they have any leftovers from MAFless tunes? That's how I picked up my VZ cats. Cost me a slab of VB!

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Zedn

In NSW we have to pass the IM240 Test. As far as i am aware it doesnt matter what you use as long as you pass IM240.

Because the current level that we need to comply with is less than full emmissions requirements i am thinking it will be ok, but i want to here from people who have taken their car through IM240 and what the setup was for this.

Gaz thanks for the info on the EGR do you know if there are any additional emmissions items such as air pump on the VE? Or is it just the evap purge solonoid (which i have)?

VE is relatively lax on emissions compared to the other current Holdens.
Other than the cat convertors, the fuel tank purge solenoid is the only "emission device". Watch out for the dreaded P0420/P0430 dtcs that set from poor cat convertor efficiency and/or exhaust leaks.
If you are having an emission test, they will most likely want to inspect your full exhaust system including placement of O2 sensors and monitor the data of ALL 4 O2 sensors on the dyno.

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

If you are having an emission test, they will most likely want to inspect your full exhaust system including placement of O2 sensors and monitor the data of ALL 4 O2 sensors on the dyno.

Not in NSW.

I passed without post cat O2s. You just have to pass the IM240 (think that has been mentioned a few times in this thread already) - they dont even look at the exhaust at the test station. Had a performance tune, pod intake, stock cats. Scraped in, but a pass is a pass.

[beauies]

Zedn,

when you do the test book in at penrith. ( botany bloke is a bit of a hard case).

With the test they don't even look under the bonnet, all they do is get you to drive your car onto the dyno, they put a baby fan in front of your radiator, a pipe over your exhaust and then they run your car up.

Make sure that you have got you cats up to temperature before you go into the room, don't let them cool off.

Make sure the carbon canister is working correctly and your fuel cap seals tight, the sniffer sucks all the air from the room as well as the exhaust.

There is a guy out penrith way that all he does basically is tune cars to pass the emission test so if you get stuck i can find his number.

[sideshow]

the biggest thing we find is the cats
use factory cats
we put nearly the same tune in most engines with similar setups and some pass some dont
maybe put new o2s especially ls1 motors as they are old now

i thought ls3s in australia still used ve 6lt style maf
and corvettes use the blade type
tune for the maf is different betweent he two types of air flow meters so make sure to use the right one for the tune
we also have run mafles sand maf and sometimes the mafless pass and the maf doesnt

in the end we says its 90% will fail due to the cats if the tune is nearly std

[sideshow]

u dont need to run all 4 o2s if your engineer states u dont need it or doesnt knwo u need 4 hehe
only 5% i guess of jobs we do run the 4

[Zedn]

Thanks Sideshow,

Cats are nearly new, I got a full HSV exhaust off a guy for a case of beer. Its going back a while but i think it had only done 5000kms.

Do the cars you guys do normally run the evap purge valve (for the charcoal canister). The harnesses im looking at dont have the wiring for this but i can still run the wires myself to the ECM as i have a diagram for pinouts.

[sideshow]

what loom is it
is it my fav gmmp looms with half the **** missing hehehehehe
i recon an engineer will be more anal if there is no evap purge valve and charcoal cannister than the rear 2 o2s missing

but u can always just run a hose to yr charcoal cannister direct from manifold without the purge valve and push a tiny in the hose so doesnt suck all the time
and then hope they dont check for vacuum at the cannister hose heheeh
it all comes up to how far the engineer checks
otherwise just fit a purge valve

[Zedn]

Looking at Psi harness. Purge valve is a must for me, as I want everything fully compliant.

[sideshow]

sheit they are cheap
if they are anything like the gmmp harnesses afew of the stuff is missing
check to see if it has fan output and tacho output
and check to see if the ecu can be reprogrammed if needed
as these are problems we ran into with the gmmp looms
also check where the fusebox assembly sits as some sit in engine bay
and ive seen cobras with fuses and relays boxes in engine bay and they look crap

i just did a cobra loom where the holden dealer supplied a ve loom since engine was ve
well they just dont suit the cobra well so i ended buying a different loom and sat ecu under dash
and got another full rewire to do on cobra at moment
so there is afew little things to look out for
a usa corvette maf has same plug and pin config as the ve maf so that side of it should be right
u just need tune to suit the maf

[Zedn]

Originally Posted by sideshow

sheit they are cheap
if they are anything like the gmmp harnesses afew of the stuff is missing
check to see if it has fan output and tacho output
and check to see if the ecu can be reprogrammed if needed
as these are problems we ran into with the gmmp looms
also check where the fusebox assembly sits as some sit in engine bay
and ive seen cobras with fuses and relays boxes in engine bay and they look crap

i just did a cobra loom where the holden dealer supplied a ve loom since engine was ve
well they just dont suit the cobra well so i ended buying a different loom and sat ecu under dash
and got another full rewire to do on cobra at moment
so there is afew little things to look out for
a usa corvette maf has same plug and pin config as the ve maf so that side of it should be right
u just need tune to suit the maf

How do you know they are crap if you need ask those questions about it?

Their loom is divided into cockpit side and engine side with a grommet in the middle. Cockpit includes ECM, pedal, fusebox, wires for optional connection to tach and speedo. Also includes wires for fan.

I am only buying the harness as i already have an E38 with the HSV tune and no security so yes tuning of the ECU is not problem.

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I will probably need to still modify the length but that is no problem. I was going to make my own harness and just by connectors and wire but it doesnt come out much cheaper when you are paying retail prices for the parts.