Finally took the plunge - New 427SC kit on order!

[Paintwerks]

Thanks for the kind words guys!

And Bernie, it was great to put a face to the voice...and meet Russell and see Marcus again.

Originally Posted by Tonus72

I thought you were thinking about working up to the full-power choice Simon??

TK....

Nice work. I am looking forward to this build!

Tony

Well, that was the plan Tony!

But when this GMPP motor (with supercharger) only cost approx. $2K more than a Vanilla, Mexico-made LS3, I just couldn't turn it down. Even the MG9 TR-6060 transmission I'm using is about $1200 cheaper than the TK0600 because the trans itself is $500 cheaper plus you don't have to buy a separate bell housing. So the net difference between the engines is only $800 plus the cost of the water pump and heat exchanger (about $1K together).

Oh, and $3K will get me smaller pulleys, a new tune and about 475kw!

A standalone Magnussen supercharger runs anywhere between $11-15K incl. fitting and tuning (depending on if it's a Walkinshaw unit). To put things into perspective, my LSA with 475kw will cost around $14K whereas an LS3 with bolt on Magnussen and about the same power will cost $21K.

But, I reckon the stock 430kw might do. T.L...is there a chance we can get together for me to check out your car please?

[Modena]

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

But when this GMPP motor (with supercharger) only cost approx. $2K more than a Vanilla, Mexico-made LS3, I just couldn't turn it down.

That may be what you tell the wife, but my crate LS3 sure as sheet didnt cost 9 grand. That thing will be a beast nonetheless no matter what it cost.

[750hp]

The blower seems to be packaged in there really nicely. Does it add much/any overall height?

[Dimis]

Paintwerks - congrats on the pick up. Sorry I missed you guys the other day.
I was hoping to get down with Bernie but the family was down the peninsula and I was looking after our little one, while the wife was booked in for a "hot springs" treatment.

Originally Posted by Modena

That may be what you tell the wife, but my crate LS3 sure as sheet didnt cost 9 grand. That thing will be a beast nonetheless no matter what it cost.

Modena, it's funny how you've worded that...
I know I can be just terrible at trying to find any logic to justifying purchases to myself, before running them past the wife. The funny part is, despite my incredibly poor ability to validate, the wife is pretty understanding and forthcoming. Ehhh... She's a keeper!

[sambo]

I love the idea of more cubes and a blower but how do you unleash the full 740Nm in a short wheelbase car weighing 1000kg? Does the ECU limit torque in the first few gears? Assuming street rubber here too.

[Paintwerks]

Originally Posted by sambo

I love the idea of more cubes and a blower but how do you unleash the full 740Nm in a short wheelbase car weighing 1000kg? Does the ECU limit torque in the first few gears? Assuming street rubber here too.

Sambo....mate, I have wondered about this myself. I don't have an answer for you...guess I'll find out! T.L. says that his Cobra makes 417kw atw so perhaps he can chime in about the general drive-ability.

Modena, not sure what you paid for yours, but the cheapest new LS3 I have found is $7450 but that is from an Ebay seller I am unfamiliar with. I can get one from Holmart for $7900 but I still need to buy a Corvette sump. So I costed the LS3 at $8500 ready to bolt in, plus I have a brand new WS427 flywheel and clutch I can sell and recoup funds on as the LSA came already fitted with a flywheel and twin plate clutch.

I didn't need to tell my wife anything about the motor. While she is of the mindset the Cobra money could be better spent elsewhere, she's fine with me building it and hasn't asked any questions.

Dimis...thanks! I look forward to meeting you in future.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

Sambo....mate, I have wondered about this myself. I don't have an answer for you...guess I'll find out! T.L. says that his Cobra makes 417kw atw so perhaps he can chime in about the general drive-ability.

It has more to do with the power curve than the peak numbers.

Assuming all else is equal - If those numbers are down low in the rev range, then your cooking those tires with every twitch of your toe.

If however those numbers are higher in the rev range then you'll get away with it if you drive softly in the lower rpm range.

ECU management of power delivery can help here.
Mind you this is easily said in theory and something else to achieve in practice.

Thems my humble thoughts.

[Aussie Mike]

I like the idea of a smaller cube higher revving engine. That's the direction I went with. The intake and cam combination in my 5.7L LS1 should be good for hopefully 400HP+ at the wheels and turning to about 7K. Going by other folks that have used this cam there's no real loss in bottom end but big gains in mid range and top end.

Ms4 cam Trans Am dyno - YouTube

Cheers

[Paintwerks]

Originally Posted by Dimis

It has more to do with the power curve than the peak numbers.

Assuming all else is equal - If those numbers are down low in the rev range, then your cooking those tires with every twitch of the toe you make.

If however those numbers are higher in the rev range then you'll get away with it if you drive softly in the lower rpm range.

ECU management if power delivery can help here.
Mind you this is easily said in theory and something else to achieve in practice.

Thems my humble thoughts.

Dimis,

I found this which gives you an idea about the power and torque:



Mike...the LS3 in my HSV R8 redlines at 6600rpm. It revs out nicely...especially after the tune it had. The LSA also has a 6600rpm rev limit.

[sambo]

Paintwerks, I'm sure you've done your research on getting that LSA into a Cobra, but here's a list of obstacles that I had to overcome or ones that I've seen other LS-Cobra owners deal with over the years.

- Engine loom (possibly different connectors compared to LS2/3)
- Fly by wire setup
- Correct ECU with Aussie tune for IM240
- Turn off VATS, BCM, etc in the software
- MAF meter and correct placement to pass IM240
- Engine temp & oil pressure senders and adapters (if needed)
- Alternator, p/steer if running it and brackets (not included with my crate motor)
- Suitable master/slave cylinder for the clutch

Many of those questions will be answered by looking up part numbers for the VF GTS, but your local Holden dealer will likely ask you to produce a VIN from one of those cars before they'll even talk to you.

With your LSA engine you won't find many tuners who have experience with that engine. Or if they do, they haven't put one in a Cobra. Sideshow may be able to help you there.

Having said all of that, when those rego plates go on the car it will all be worth it!

[Paintwerks]

Hi Sambo,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'll break it apart so I can respond to each point individually.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Engine loom (possibly different connectors compared to LS2/3)

I'm using the related LSA Engine Controller kit which includes everything to get the motor running easily (so GMPP claim). The kit includes the ECU/PCM, harness, fuse box, O2 sensors and bungs, MAF sensor and mount and drive by wire throttle.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Fly by wire setup

Craig tells me that the pedal box supplied in the comprehensive kit is compatible with the fly by wire pedal setup.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Correct ECU with Aussie tune for IM240

I'm working with the tuner who did my R8 tune. They already have done a Cadillac CTS-V with the LSA as well as 4 other VF GTS'. They are able to load a stock GTS tune to my PCM and tweek as necessary.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Turn off VATS, BCM, etc in the software

The LSA engine controller software (and harness) has been stripped to just run the engine. I'm not sure if in flashing the GTS tune will bring back all the software 'features' that will need to be disabled. But the tuner should be able to easily accomplish that I'd assume.

Originally Posted by sambo

- MAF meter and correct placement to pass IM240

Thanks. Will talk with the engineer about that. I haven't decided if I am going full reg or club reg yet. If the latter I won't need the IM240. But I am building and engineering the car as if I will be going for full reg, and then I will decide.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Engine temp & oil pressure senders and adapters (if needed)
- Alternator, p/steer if running it and brackets (not included with my crate motor)

Will check out about the senders and brackets. I'm not planning on running power steering.

Originally Posted by sambo

- Suitable master/slave cylinder for the clutch

Will need to talk to Craig about this one as the MC's are all supplied in the comprehensive kit.

Originally Posted by sambo

Many of those questions will be answered by looking up part numbers for the VF GTS, but your local Holden dealer will likely ask you to produce a VIN from one of those cars before they'll even talk to you.

The Holden dealer I bought the engine from has been very accommodating. They know what I'm doing with the engine and have provided me all the information I need and every parts price (and associated trade discount) that I ask for.

Originally Posted by sambo

With your LSA engine you won't find many tuners who have experience with that engine. Or if they do, they haven't put one in a Cobra. Sideshow may be able to help you there.

As mentioned, my tuner already has done a number of LSA's and will have done a lot more by the time I am ready.

Originally Posted by sambo

Having said all of that, when those rego plates go on the car it will all be worth it!

Thanks! I sure hope so!

[Tenrocca]

I passed IM240 without an "emissions special" or even stock tune, basic undercar exhaust with stock commodore cats.

[Paintwerks]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

I passed IM240 without an "emissions special" or even stock tune, basic undercar exhaust with stock commodore cats.

Excellent news then. Perhaps it won't be an issue to use the pre-loaded tune in the GMPP supplied ECU?

[Tenrocca]

Only difference is in NSW its free - so I was able to take a shot with what I had knowing it would cost me nothing (and it passed).

[T.L.]

paintwerks, shouldn't be a problem to show you the car with its setup. I do have some photo's in the photo thingy I think. (I havent looked in a while and I dont come on here that frequently) my rear springs are too light so it's laid up a bit until I can get it somewhere to change them fronts are done but they are too high now but at least they are a better weight in spring.

I only rev to 5500 as we couldn't get any more fuel to the thing apparently. Already running 60 pound injectors? and it starts to lean out above that, thats what Errol at efi dynamics said anyway!!. Running bosh 044 pump etc... so that shouldn't be a problem there, but as it happens 5500 is more than enough revs as you start to pack a new pair of underpants after 4000 or want to 'rotate' after you have gone through V1.

Here's my engine bay, nothing too shiney.

[d488y2]

Here's a link to Approved Vehicle testers in Vic for emissions and noise
Approved vehicle testers

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

I passed IM240 without an "emissions special" or even stock tune, basic undercar exhaust with stock commodore cats.

There's a rumour that here in Vic the test will be returning to 50% for a pass (ie, twice as tough), which is half the allowed level of pollutants we're currently enjoying and have been the past few years.

With my L98 which passed with stock MAF, VZ cats and factory tune, I can't remember which of the 3 gas readings but one of them was nearly over the limit and that was with the relaxed (100%) test. Fully warmed up in the car park and they gave it a second run back to back to make sure it wasn't a false reading.

Do they run four O2 sensors in the VF GTS?

[T.L.]

i had 4 goes at it, was soo close on all of them, was a bit of overfueling on over run. Took supercharger off and put OE cats on and it still failed with OE fuel pump etc..... The test is a joke in itself as a new car will fail it and thats what the testers said!!!.

In the end they moved the rule to 100% same as the other states so I didn't have to retest and the best test was the first one with the supercharger on etc.....

[kyleb]

Paintwerks
That thing will be a beast.
I have an LS1 in my cobra with magnussun supercharger. It made around 355kw at the wheels. It drives fantastic, very user friendly. These things produce bags of torque almost from idle therefore you can light the tyres whenever you like and you don't need to run it up on the limiter to do it.
I'm only running 4lbs of boost so it has a lot more if I want, but at this point it is very reliable, not stressed and makes me grin like an idiot every time I drive it.
I am running a Lunati blower cam which was made for supercharger/hotrod applications therfore has quite a lope so it sounds like a cobra should, (ANGRY).
With regards to the IM240, I managed to pass first time with no blower and a stock tune.
There is some major points to note.
Use quality cats. I used cats from an XF falcon ( yes you read it right) those old cats were quality.
A lot depends on who is doing the drive cycle on the dyno because anything they do can have major effects on the outcome.
A lot of these cars fail on the deceleration not acceleration.
The Maf needs to be placed ideally 400mm or so from the TB so the computer has time to make adjustments.
Try to get the distance of the O2 sensor and cats close to where they are on the OE installation.
Get a new carbon canister and DON'T hook it up until test day cos it will feed fuel vapor into the engine from soak possibly increasing emissions.
I used a painless wiring loom for mine which included drive by wire and it was a breeze.
Only thing I had to do was reverse the pedal due to being L/H drive pedal.
Use the parts they tell you to and you will find it quite easy.
Can't wait to see it on the road !!

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by sambo

Do they run four O2 sensors in the VF GTS?

It would but dont think it would make any difference to the IM 240 as downstream cats are only there to monitor if the cats have gone bad.