Newcomer

[Cobra_8]

Hi all,

I am new to this club and forum, but I have always been a fan of Shelby cars and especially the Cobras, definitely one of my dream cars.

My interest got more into enquiring, since I saw the kits from Factory Five Racing (FFR), as I like the idea of an all brand new parts instead of a swap in Nissan or Jaguar suspension and the likes of that. Also, they manufacture kits and spare parts on a decent scale for maybe Low Volume Vehicle Scheme and the complete kit only requires the engine, transmission, water pump, wheels and tyres.

I don't know much about the kit/replica build cars and the compliance with ADR and Victorian state laws. Has anyone in Victoria been successful in a full registration of a FFR Cobra? I read somewhere else that VicRoads, do not allow tube spaceframe chassises. In addition are working side-exhausts legal in Victoria? Furthermore, I'd like to know how good are the tonneau covers in the rain and if anyone has a removable hardtop?

I like to have an FFR Cobra kit with maybe a 5.0L Coyote V8 with the Tremac Manual Transmission, working side-exhausts and a removable hardtop. Hope to hear from you all and be in many more discussions, thank!

Cheers,

Tony

[boxhead]

Welcome along.

I am not sure if a FFR kit has been complied in Vic yet, so that would be the first thing to check and find out, maybe join the Cobra Car Club of Vic.

If a FFR has not been complied, then it may be due to being "too hard" with requirements for torsional and beaming test on frame, and manufactured parts requiring metalurgy testing etc (maybe)

Dont be put of thinking that old Jag or Nissan stuff is no good.
Classic Revival use current commodore suspension, so in theory you could buy brand new parts from Holden (although used parts would be far cheaper)

Your engine choice should be fine for compliance.

Live side pipes as far as I know are still not permitted in Vic when doing compliance.

"My interest got more into enquiring, since I saw the kits from Factory Five Racing (FFR), as I like the idea of an all brand new parts instead of a swap in Nissan or Jaguar suspension and the likes of that. Also, they manufacture kits and spare parts on a decent scale for maybe Low Volume Vehicle Scheme and the complete kit only requires the engine, transmission, water pump, wheels and tyres."

You will also need to convert it to R/H drive.
And I am not sure if FFR would be wanting to chase the Low Vehicle Volume approval.

In any case, good luck in your hunt, join Vic club.
Also there is a large Cobra gathering at Winton the Saturday after F1 GrandPrix, may be a chance to see some cars up close.

[jcraigau]

Not sure if you know about their Australian distributor?
https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-...ers/australia/

Might be a good place to start...
There are a couple of guys over here in the West that have FFR kits in various stages of completion, and even one with a Coyote!

[Paintwerks]

Hi Tony,

I'm relatively new here myself, but welcome anyways!

When I lived in Detroit (2000-2005), I'd planned on building an FFR Cobra. At the time, I only went as far as to buy an assembly manual and hang out with guys who were building them. So I saw various FFR's from delivery/boxed-stage through to completed stage. Some were all-new-everything exxy cars with 427 and 460 big blocks, and others were much cheaper ‘bitzer/homebrew’ cars that used the old, used Fox-body Mustang as the donor car (using a 302). Try hard and you could get an FFR on the road using donor parts for under $19K. But I only wanted all-new parts and a 460 crate motor……wifey thought a $45-50K hole in the bank account was too much to spend at that time so I learned to fly instead (about $10K).

Fast forward to mid-2012 and I was now finally in a position to build a Cobra (also easier for me as I own a bodyshop and paint these types of cars for a living!). I looked at FFR again, as I did Harrison, CR, Python and DRB. While they were all great kits in their own right, in late September ’12 I financially committed to a Pace Engineering (Prop. Craig White) 427SC out of the Gold Coast.

My reasons for choosing this kit were as follows:

1. Craig is the Australian agent for the aluminium-bodied Kirkham Cobras. He’s been around a while too, which is reassuring. His customer service, communication and people skills are also first rate. He is super-friendly as well. When you are venturing into the 'unknown' having this kind of support is critical.
2. He has extensive experience building other brands of Cobras including FFR, Harrison and DRB for paying customers so he knows the strengths and weaknesses of those kits. He also offers a GT40 kit and another type of ‘supercar’ kit car.
3. His 427SC body is (I believe) moulded off the aluminium-bodied Kirkham which is in turn taken from CSX3034, an original Shelby ‘65 427SC, so dimensionally it's very correct.
4. The Pace 427SC is the only Australian kit with a full aircraft grade aluminium chassis (whereas all others are steel of some sort). That means compared to metal, it will be lighter and stronger with no rust issues to be concerned about down the line. Finished weight with an LS3 will be between 950-980kg whereas I believe a Harrison with the same motor is around 1050-1100kg.
5. Compared to other Cobra kits, the Pace 427SC is wider, plus the standard-bodied car can accept a driver up to 6'4" on standard width seat rails; whereas others like the Harrison apparently have to be ordered as a stretched 50mm or 100mm longer chassis/body to fit a driver over 6ft/6’1”. Honestly no offence to those that own one, but I am simply not a fan of the stretched look.
6. Craig's kit comes as a rolling chassis with brand new differential, adjustable coilover suspension and steering rack. No second hand parts are used. It does cost more that say, a Harrison (about $20ish K for a rolling Harrison versus $29,995 for the rolling Pace 427SC), but I do personally believe everything that Craig offers is worth the extra coin.
7. I'm not privy to sharing the images (yet), but I can tell you from what I have seen, the fibreglass, kevlar and carbon body is drop-dead gorgeous and straight as a die. This theoretically means less time in prep before paint, lighter due to less filler and a better overall finished result.
8. Because the Pace 427SC uses its own chassis, they've been able to set the tyres to tuck just under the rear fenders yet still with 100mm legal ground clearance. It sits low and mean, unlike the 'jacked-up' look that some other kits have to deal with by virtue of their design.
9. From what he tells me, Craig is modelling his 427SC enterprise to be like FFR’s. He’s planning to be able to offer all the parts in-house to complete the car, at very attractive prices. So it will save you money to buy everything through him as he will buy in quantity, plus you’ll get the parts faster as well as being the correct parts for the car (and we all hate it when the parts don't fit because we ordered the wrong thing!)

Now to your questions on engineering:

1. I have spoken with my Melbourne-based VASS Approved Engineer who has in turn spoken with Craig. Rowan reported that Craig supplied him with the relevant documentation and that everything was in order. He said there would be no problem registering the car on full reg in Victoria

2. The Engineer said that he wasn't concerned about live side pipes, but that VicRoads may have an issue due to exceeding the permitted noise limits. He did suggest that it would be easier to comply the car with an undercar system. From what I have heard about live side pipes heavily assaulting your eardrums, I am tending to stick with the dummy side pipes (you can't replace your hearing!).

3. I was considering the Coyote, but have chosen to go to the dark side…and am fitting an LS376 525hp LS3 mated to a TKO600 5 speed with a .64 5th gear. I’m also planning on running pin drive 15” knock on/off wheels with the Goodyear ‘Billboard’ tyres.

My kit is currently under construction at the factory. I’m not sure when it will be ready but I hope within the month. If the Pace 427 interests you, then you’re more than welcome to check my car out when it arrives.

Whatever kit you choose, best of luck with your journey!

Cheers,
Sime

[Modena]

Hi Tony and welcome to the madness. As has been pointed out there are some kits which use all new components and no Jag bits. Second hand remains an option for donor parts, while some new parts are built by the supplier (eg front A-arms).

Sidepipes are legal in Vic but will require heatshields. Getting them quiet enough to pass the test is another discussion entirely......

I'm not sure what you mean by not allowing tube space frame chassis? Classic Revival's are tubular space frame and they are being registered fine.

Enjoy your stay!

[letsboogie351]

Hi Tony
if you want to have a chat with a few Cobra owners here is a good place to start

Doug

Cobra Car Club of Victoria

February 2013

Wednesday 06 Monthly Cobra Club Meeting
East Malvern RSL, Stanley Grose Drive, East Malvern VIC 3145 (Melway 60 A12). Meeting starts ~7:30pm (most people arrive before 7 to grab a bite and a drink)

[Cobra_8]

Originally Posted by boxhead

Welcome along.

I am not sure if a FFR kit has been complied in Vic yet, so that would be the first thing to check and find out, maybe join the Cobra Car Club of Vic.

If a FFR has not been complied, then it may be due to being "too hard" with requirements for torsional and beaming test on frame, and manufactured parts requiring metalurgy testing etc (maybe)

Dont be put of thinking that old Jag or Nissan stuff is no good.
Classic Revival use current commodore suspension, so in theory you could buy brand new parts from Holden (although used parts would be far cheaper)

Your engine choice should be fine for compliance.

Live side pipes as far as I know are still not permitted in Vic when doing compliance.

"My interest got more into enquiring, since I saw the kits from Factory Five Racing (FFR), as I like the idea of an all brand new parts instead of a swap in Nissan or Jaguar suspension and the likes of that. Also, they manufacture kits and spare parts on a decent scale for maybe Low Volume Vehicle Scheme and the complete kit only requires the engine, transmission, water pump, wheels and tyres."

You will also need to convert it to R/H drive.
And I am not sure if FFR would be wanting to chase the Low Vehicle Volume approval.

In any case, good luck in your hunt, join Vic club.
Also there is a large Cobra gathering at Winton the Saturday after F1 GrandPrix, may be a chance to see some cars up close.

I guess my best bet is to talk to one FFR Australian agent in WA and VicRoads approved certifying engineer.

It not the fact that Jag or Nissan donor parts are not good, just a pedantic thing of me of wanting everything new. I didn't AUDM vehicles are used as donor parts as well, interesting and thanks for that information.

FFR recently are making for RHD market now, since gaining agents in Australia and the UK. I would hope that FFR gain LVVS approval since they have an Australian agent, it would only increase their marketability.

Yeah I will definitely attend some meets in the future and please don't mind me attending with my current ride hahaha.

Originally Posted by jcraigau

Not sure if you know about their Australian distributor?
https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-...ers/australia/

Might be a good place to start...
There are a couple of guys over here in the West that have FFR kits in various stages of completion, and even one with a Coyote!

Yup, I saw the Australian agent through the FFR website, just need to have some keyboard conversation with the agent. I would love land a job in WA and enjoy the relaxed laws over there, those lucky Westies!

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

Hi Tony,

I'm relatively new here myself, but welcome anyways!

When I lived in Detroit (2000-2005), I'd planned on building an FFR Cobra. At the time, I only went as far as to buy an assembly manual and hang out with guys who were building them. So I saw various FFR's from delivery/boxed-stage through to completed stage. Some were all-new-everything exxy cars with 427 and 460 big blocks, and others were much cheaper ‘bitzer/homebrew’ cars that used the old, used Fox-body Mustang as the donor car (using a 302). Try hard and you could get an FFR on the road using donor parts for under $19K. But I only wanted all-new parts and a 460 crate motor……wifey thought a $45-50K hole in the bank account was too much to spend at that time so I learned to fly instead (about $10K).

Fast forward to mid-2012 and I was now finally in a position to build a Cobra (also easier for me as I own a bodyshop and paint these types of cars for a living!). I looked at FFR again, as I did Harrison, CR, Python and DRB. While they were all great kits in their own right, in late September ’12 I financially committed to a Pace Engineering (Prop. Craig White) 427SC out of the Gold Coast.

My reasons for choosing this kit were as follows:

1. Craig is the Australian agent for the aluminium-bodied Kirkham Cobras. He’s been around a while too, which is reassuring. His customer service, communication and people skills are also first rate. He is super-friendly as well. When you are venturing into the 'unknown' having this kind of support is critical.
2. He has extensive experience building other brands of Cobras including FFR, Harrison and DRB for paying customers so he knows the strengths and weaknesses of those kits. He also offers a GT40 kit and another type of ‘supercar’ kit car.
3. His 427SC body is (I believe) moulded off the aluminium-bodied Kirkham which is in turn taken from CSX3034, an original Shelby ‘65 427SC, so dimensionally it's very correct.
4. The Pace 427SC is the only Australian kit with a full aircraft grade aluminium chassis (whereas all others are steel of some sort). That means compared to metal, it will be lighter and stronger with no rust issues to be concerned about down the line. Finished weight with an LS3 will be between 950-980kg whereas I believe a Harrison with the same motor is around 1050-1100kg.
5. Compared to other Cobra kits, the Pace 427SC is wider, plus the standard-bodied car can accept a driver up to 6'4" on standard width seat rails; whereas others like the Harrison apparently have to be ordered as a stretched 50mm or 100mm longer chassis/body to fit a driver over 6ft/6’1”. Honestly no offence to those that own one, but I am simply not a fan of the stretched look.
6. Craig's kit comes as a rolling chassis with brand new differential, adjustable coilover suspension and steering rack. No second hand parts are used. It does cost more that say, a Harrison (about $20ish K for a rolling Harrison versus $29,995 for the rolling Pace 427SC), but I do personally believe everything that Craig offers is worth the extra coin.
7. I'm not privy to sharing the images (yet), but I can tell you from what I have seen, the fibreglass, kevlar and carbon body is drop-dead gorgeous and straight as a die. This theoretically means less time in prep before paint, lighter due to less filler and a better overall finished result.
8. Because the Pace 427SC uses its own chassis, they've been able to set the tyres to tuck just under the rear fenders yet still with 100mm legal ground clearance. It sits low and mean, unlike the 'jacked-up' look that some other kits have to deal with by virtue of their design.
9. From what he tells me, Craig is modelling his 427SC enterprise to be like FFR’s. He’s planning to be able to offer all the parts in-house to complete the car, at very attractive prices. So it will save you money to buy everything through him as he will buy in quantity, plus you’ll get the parts faster as well as being the correct parts for the car (and we all hate it when the parts don't fit because we ordered the wrong thing!)

Now to your questions on engineering:

1. I have spoken with my Melbourne-based VASS Approved Engineer who has in turn spoken with Craig. Rowan reported that Craig supplied him with the relevant documentation and that everything was in order. He said there would be no problem registering the car on full reg in Victoria

2. The Engineer said that he wasn't concerned about live side pipes, but that VicRoads may have an issue due to exceeding the permitted noise limits. He did suggest that it would be easier to comply the car with an undercar system. From what I have heard about live side pipes heavily assaulting your eardrums, I am tending to stick with the dummy side pipes (you can't replace your hearing!).

3. I was considering the Coyote, but have chosen to go to the dark side…and am fitting an LS376 525hp LS3 mated to a TKO600 5 speed with a .64 5th gear. I’m also planning on running pin drive 15” knock on/off wheels with the Goodyear ‘Billboard’ tyres.

My kit is currently under construction at the factory. I’m not sure when it will be ready but I hope within the month. If the Pace 427 interests you, then you’re more than welcome to check my car out when it arrives.

Whatever kit you choose, best of luck with your journey!

Cheers,
Sime

WOW! Thank you for your comprehensive post sharing your experiences, very much appreciated for the time taken. I will definitely take this into consideration, as having a lot more options is better than one or none. The only reason why I choose a FFR kit thus far is that their website has a good amount of detail and pictures to make you feel a bit more confident in their product and also their reputation in the States for their kits. I hope to get more information from the Australian manufacturers and maybe my choice will change, as been able to fly and visit their office and factory is much more viable, be apart of the design process and also resourcing spare parts would be better in the longer run. That's good to hear that the about the certification aspect and the live side pipes too, if loudness is an issue I'd be happy to get a custom exhaust system with HFC's, resonators, mufflers and what not from the headers. I just don't like the fact of having redundant parts on the car and not having the side pipes on a Cobra to me, in my opinion would not be a Cobra. I have not personally been up close and personal with a Cobra at all (I know... shame! ), so I would definitely take you up on that offer and I hope to hear more from you on the build.

Originally Posted by Modena

Hi Tony and welcome to the madness. As has been pointed out there are some kits which use all new components and no Jag bits. Second hand remains an option for donor parts, while some new parts are built by the supplier (eg front A-arms).

Sidepipes are legal in Vic but will require heatshields. Getting them quiet enough to pass the test is another discussion entirely......

I'm not sure what you mean by not allowing tube space frame chassis? Classic Revival's are tubular space frame and they are being registered fine.

Enjoy your stay!

That's good to hear another Victorian confirm these engineering certification issues! Heatshields won't be a problem to me and I said below, I'm happy to have a modified exhaust to make it compliant within reason of course. Yeah I read somewhere else that VicRoads do not allow tube space frame chassis, to which I didn't understand why there are Cobras on the Carsales with full registration. I just had to ask to confirm, thanks!

Originally Posted by letsboogie351

Hi Tony
if you want to have a chat with a few Cobra owners here is a good place to start

Doug

Cobra Car Club of Victoria

February 2013

Wednesday 06 Monthly Cobra Club Meeting
East Malvern RSL, Stanley Grose Drive, East Malvern VIC 3145 (Melway 60 A12). Meeting starts ~7:30pm (most people arrive before 7 to grab a bite and a drink)

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up! Weekdays are bad for me, but I hope I can reschedule some other stuff round to attend. Are the Victorian Meets usually on weekdays?

[Cobra_8]

Thanks everyone for their replies! I responded to each reply individual and it was pretty lengthy, not sure why it is not shown.

Good news to much of my engineering cerfitcation and registration questions!

Can anyone shed some light on tonneau covers and removable hard-tops?

Also, what ball park figure would I be expecting to pay for insurance?

[boxhead]

I just renewed my Insurance.
Got a renewal letter from current insurer, and by chance I got a call from Shannons yesterday, they quoted on same car with same valuation ($80k).
Shannons got my business, as on an overall package (all my cars and trailer) they came in cheaper.
Although slightly higher comparing just Cobra to Cobra.
Cobra alone on limited use full rego is $550.00 with Shannons. Or $520 with LSV.

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Cobra_8

Can anyone shed some light on tonneau covers and removable hard-tops?

I have a hardtop that I have started modding to fit. Its not too difficult a job if you are confident with fibreglass. Not sure if there are any manufacturers offering a direct fit option on hardtops?

Mine is from Mr Bruce (in the USA) who is on this forum. He makes the bottom edge oversize so that it can be trimmed to fit.



Cheers

[Cobra_8]

Originally Posted by boxhead

I just renewed my Insurance.
Got a renewal letter from current insurer, and by chance I got a call from Shannons yesterday, they quoted on same car with same valuation ($80k).
Shannons got my business, as on an overall package (all my cars and trailer) they came in cheaper.
Although slightly higher comparing just Cobra to Cobra.
Cobra alone on limited use full rego is $550.00 with Shannons. Or $520 with LSV.

F***! WOW! That is cheap! I'm sold, but I'm not sure if I will get that much for under 30 and what's their definition of limited use?

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

I have a hardtop that I have started modding to fit. Its not too difficult a job if you are confident with fibreglass. Not sure if there are any manufacturers offering a direct fit option on hardtops?

Mine is from Mr Bruce (in the USA) who is on this forum. He makes the bottom edge oversize so that it can be trimmed to fit.



Cheers

WOW! Pretty much what I would be looking for. I'm getting sold again!

Dreams slowing becoming reality...

[spookypt]

I think Tenrocca's right about Aussie made cobras and hardtops. DRB had one I think but not sure about what they're doing now.

Backdraft Cobras out of the USA/SA do a few hardtop versions to fit there various models.







I've actually been trying for about 18 months now to get a "PRICE" to buy one one off Backdraft but the response to even get a price ex-USA is as good as the front RHS fender on BDR 00. Hopelessly Roooted!

I've given up trying now.

Spookypt

[boxhead]

Shannons advised that was for any driver 25 or older.

If I list extra drivers the excess does not go up ($400)
If an unlisted driver has an accident the excess is $800

Limited use, they did not stipulate a KL amount, but I advised if the weather is good I drive it.
Not every day, but in good weather (not too hot) I will drive mine once a week. Shannons advised that would put it in "limited use"

[Cobra_8]

Originally Posted by spookypt

I think Tenrocca's right about Aussie made cobras and hardtops. DRB had one I think but not sure about what they're doing now.

Backdraft Cobras out of the USA/SA do a few hardtop versions to fit there various models.







I've actually been trying for about 18 months now to get a "PRICE" to buy one one off Backdraft but the response to even get a price ex-USA is as good as the front RHS fender on BDR 00. Hopelessly Roooted!

I've given up trying now.

Spookypt

Thanks for the pictures and the second hard-top type is definitely what I had in mind. I'm sure there are plenty of people wanting or interested in removable hard-tops and the market is there, so not sure why it seems kinda rare...

[sambo]

If you want full rego, first thing I'd check with FFR is evidence that it has passed the torsion and beam (twist and bend) test. Far more important than choice of IRS and a great reason to support the local kit manufacturers.

[Treeve]

I've got the B&T results from FFR, I will need to unearth them from my laptop.

Importantly, there are a number of other things such as steering column lock which is a bit of a pain to retrofit and FFR do not supply. There's an FFR in NSW that I should be inspecting for certification next month; obviously we'll know what else happens when I see it.

Treeve

[Cobra_8]

Originally Posted by Treeve

I've got the B&T results from FFR, I will need to unearth them from my laptop.

Importantly, there are a number of other things such as steering column lock which is a bit of a pain to retrofit and FFR do not supply. There's an FFR in NSW that I should be inspecting for certification next month; obviously we'll know what else happens when I see it.

Treeve

Hi Treeve,

Thanks for sharing that information, hope to be kept in the loop.

Cheers,

Tony

[Cobra_8]

Hey all, I don't know much about the coyote engines, but is it capable of flexible fuel such as ethanol blends, diesel or dual-fuel (petrol/gas)?

[Cobra_8]

I think I have narrowed it down to either Absolute Pace, Factory Five Racing or Superformance. Just wonder if anyone knows what the base price of a Superformance Mk3 kit is?

[Modena]

Well I wouldn't say you are comparing apples to apples with that selection of three!