Speedo in 'line-of-sight'?

PeterAllen · #1 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 12:53 AM

I was just looking at Wazza's beautifully finish car with a considerable degree of envy Wazza's Cobra update. and I noticed the centre console positioning of the speedo, and tach.

I would like to recreate the 250 GTO instrument panel which only had a tacho and then mount a speedo under the dash or down on the transmission tunnel as many GTOs did for road registration (see photo). I was under the impression a speedo had to be in 'line-of-sight', i.e. visible through the steering wheel, and I wondered how that is interpreted buy the RMS.

I'll ask my engineer but does anyone have information on this issue. Thanks

Wazza · #2 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 01:00 AM

I think that "rule" has been outdated....
I was worried that I'd get pulled up for doing it, but it was never mentioned.

If you look at some current new cars ( Mini Cooper s)... They have the speedo in the middle,

http://www.seriouswheels.com/2006/20...r-1280x960.htm

so it must be legal I guess.
Cheers,
Warren

PeterAllen · #3 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 01:37 AM

Warren – That image isn't all that clear. What are the instruments on the steering column?

(edit) I've looked on Google 'search' and you're right - Thanks.

Zedn · #4 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 01:50 AM

The original BMW mini had the speedo any tachometer swapped for Australian delivery. The speedo was moved to being the small one behind the steering wheel and the tachometer in the centre. On the newer cars the speedo is in the middle. Somewhere in between there must have been a change to ADRs.

They put the speedo in the middle from around 2007 on.

Treeve can probably shed some light on the topic.

Zedn · #5 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterAllen

Warren – That image isn't all that clear. What are the instruments on the steering column?

(edit) I've looked on Google 'search' and you're right - Thanks.

2006 had speedo and tach above the steering column.

Zedn · #6 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 02:03 AM

Just looked it up. It changed July 2006 but the change doesnt appear to be anything about location. Current requirement is:

5.1.The display of the speedometer must be located within the direct field of view of the driver and must be clearly legible both day and night. The range of speeds displayed must be sufficiently wide to include the maximum speed of this type of vehicle as stated by the manufacturer.

I can't see a diagram for determining direct field of view, but I'm looking on my little iPhone screen. If mini has it that way it's a pretty easy argument. In my opinion direct field of view is what you can see with your eyes without turning your head away from the direction of the road. But that is just my guess.

jcraigau · #7 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 05:07 AM

My '69 Cooper S had it in the middle :-)

Tonus72 · #8 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 03:22 PM

Hi,

I had a 2006 Mini Cooper S (pre-kids!) Having the smaller speedo and tach side-by-side above the steering column was an option on the early BMW Minis. It was called the 'chrono pack' and replaced the large centre speedo with a few small gauges. Was not an option on the second generation I don't think.

So nothing to do with line of sight, but I preferred it because the smaller speedo was easier to keep and eye on, and my right foot is heavier than my left!

Tone

Tonus72 · #9 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 03:24 PM

DUplicate

400TT · #10 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 06:06 PM

As described by the ADR, you can have the speedometer anywhere in the field of view. Zedn has the right idea by field of view.

Just sit in the vehicle look forward as you would do driving the vehicle and you can determine the field of view pretty easily.

So guages towards the middle of the vehicle are fine, even my Wife's Yaris has a centre speedo/instrument cluster. But if you do move the guages from the traditional location make sure they are still easy to see, either large enough to be easily visible or tilted towards the driver.

Peter down on the console would probably be a little low and out of field of view in my opinion but it all depends on your seating position. i.e. a GT40 could have the speedo a lot lower than a Cobra due to the different seating heights etc.

Not placing the instruments behind the steering wheel has quite a few advantages, the instruments are never blocked by the steering wheel when turning and the visibiliy of instruments are not affected by height of driver or height adjustment of the column(if column is adjustable).

That extract that Zedn posted is from ADR 18/03.

Hope that helps mate.

PeterAllen · #11 (**permalink**) 05-25-2013, 07:15 PM

Many many thanks for the posts above, it's great to get feedback from those who know or who are prepared to offer an informed opinion.

I have been advised that as my project is a ‘modification’ and not an ‘ICV’ I am required to comply with the ADRs applicable to the vehicle when it was initially built – March 1972. That means I sit between the 1st and newest generation Minis, and Yaris, etc. and I have to have the speedo in front of the driver.

This must be about the one thousandth idea that never quite makes it to the build!!

Aussie Mike · #12 (**permalink**) 05-26-2013, 01:32 AM

Just use a speedo and tacho that are the same size. After rego you can swap them around.

Cheers

PeterAllen · #13 (**permalink**) 05-26-2013, 05:45 PM

Mike – You’re not just a pretty face... but such subterfuge will not be required (see following).

Good news - The relevant ADR (18) wasn't introduced until Jan '73 so I can now relocate the Speedo. To be fair to my engineer I hadn’t reminded him of the 240Z build date (3/72) and he assumed it was post Jan ’73.

boxhead · #14 (**permalink**) 05-26-2013, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

Just use a speedo and tacho that are the same size. After rego you can swap them around.

Cheers

Not that I probably needed to, but this is exactly what I did.

How mine is now after swapping.

Aussie Mike · #15 (**permalink**) 05-26-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterAllen

Mike – You’re not just a pretty face... .

Definitley not a pretty face unless the international standards of beauty have been drasticaly revised.

Treeve · #16 (**permalink**) 05-27-2013, 05:25 AM

The words 'field of view' are also defined in the ADRs as well, being a 20degree cone from the 95th percentile of (lots of other boring technicalities).

If you go to the department of infrastructure's website you can find the ADRs, the definitions, and also, my all time favourite piece of the Aussie govt giving us as modifiers / builders the shaft: ADR 0.

Treeve

Rob. Smith · #17 (**permalink**) 05-27-2013, 06:13 AM

The 95th percentile ...It needs a lot of digging to find the final figures,....ha ha ha

PeterAllen · #18 (**permalink**) 05-27-2013, 07:10 AM

I would like to take the opportunity to publicly thank Treeve for alerting me (via another forum) to the 1st Jan ’73 introduction of ADR 18. Thank you.

I have spent most of today pondering how to make a 5” bezel for the a new tacho housing.

400TT · #19 (**permalink**) 05-27-2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeve

The words 'field of view' are also defined in the ADRs as well, being a 20degree cone from the 95th percentile of (lots of other boring technicalities).

Treeve, I thought that definition was just for rear view mirrors???

Mind you this is an area we have not needed to fully educate ourselves on yet. So I am certainly no expert. And too short on time to look it up unfortunately...